September 11, 1939

LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

By an order in council which was passed at the beginning of the week,I believe on September 1, the provisions of the Pension Act are to apply. As my hon. friend knows, the Pension Act applies to

soldiers who took part in the last war, but its provisions have now been made to apply to those who are called for service during this war.

Mr. HOMUTH: For service or active

service?

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

Both, if they are in the army now.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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CON

Grote Stirling

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STIRLING:

I am not quite clear as to the difference between service and active service. Am I right in supposing that those who enrolled under section 63 now come in under section 64, that section, which calls for active service, having been proclaimed?

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

In so far as the Pension Act is concerned, yes; in so far as this bill is concerned, I would have to inquire. I can tell my hon. friend that if it does not cover such a case, we will see that these men who are called out on service are treated in the same way as those called out on active service.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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CON

Robert James Manion (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

What I have to say really has nothing to do with the bill, but the subject has been mentioned by the minister. I should like to take this opportunity to step aside a little for a moment to mention one matter. The minister referred to private soldiers having families of six or seven. In my remarks the other day I suggested that soldiers with dependents should be kept out of the danger zones as far as possible. I just

draw this to the attention of the minister because he is one of the ablest ministers in the government.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

Thank you.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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CON

Robert James Manion (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

I do not know that this is saying very much for him, but at any rate he is. However, I suggest to the government that they give serious consideration to seeing that men with large families are not sent into the danger zones. This should be done not only for the sake of the families but for the sake of the country because of the high allowances that would have to be paid; and if such a man becomes a casualty, there is a heavy pension bill to be paid by the country. No doubt the minister will have an opportunity to discuss this matter with his colleagues, and I think it should be seriously considered.

Section as amended agreed to.

On section 4-Property vested in corporation.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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LIB

Louis-Prudent-Alexandre Robichaud

Liberal

Mr. ROBICHAUD:

Are contributions to the patriotic fund to be wholly voluntary?

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

Yes.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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?

Albany M. Robichaud

Mr. ROBICHALTD:

The bill is not clear on that point. I notice that clause 4 reads:

There shall vest in the corporation all moneys at any time collected by, or contributed to, the corporation.

The old act of 1914 had the word "contributed" only. But now it says, "collected by, or contributed to, the corporation". My own municipality was called upon to contribute the sum of $28,000, and we had to issue debentures on which we paid interest and sinking fund up to the year 1937. I think it should be made quite clear that these contributions are to be voluntary only, and not a matter of conscription or confiscation. The municipalities at this time, after passing through the depression, are not in a condition to make any forced contribution to the Canadian patriotic fund.

Furthermore, in many parts of the country the Canadian patriotic fund has left a bad taste in the mouth, and I think the government would be well advised to change its title because, as the hon. member for Temis-couata (Mr. Pouliot) said a few moments ago in discussing the other bill, patriotism is sometimes the last refuge of a scoundrel. I know that in some parts of the country the Canadian patriotic fund has left a bad impression. It was abused by people who had money in the bank and had really no need for assistance from the fund. Other people, perhaps because they were too timid to go after assist-

Canadian Patriotic Fund

ance from the fund or lacked influence, got no assistance. The present fund will have to be administered better, and I suggest to the minister that it be made clear that no municipality shall be forced to contribute and to issue debentures as we had to do in 1914.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I would suggest to my hon. friend that all contributions were made voluntarily. Was there any municipal contribution made otherwise than voluntarily during the last war?

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

I am sure there was not. The sum of 348,000,000 was raised by voluntary subscription in Canada.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

That is what I understood. I never heard the suggestion during the lifetime of the patriotic fund that contributions were levied upon municipalities.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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LIB

Louis-Prudent-Alexandre Robichaud

Liberal

Mr. ROBICHAUD:

I have been secretary of my county for the last twenty-two years, and I was secretary then. 1 know that we were given a quota which our municipality had to raise, and I understand that was the case with every other municipality in the province. It may have been done under a provincial act. It should be made clear that no such compulsory contributions will be attempted at this time.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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CON

Karl Kenneth Homuth

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOMUTH:

There was an amendment giving the municipalities the right to borrow for patriotic purposes, but whether or not they should contribute was entirely for the municipal councils themselves to decide, and even if the bill were amended the councils would still have the power to contribute voluntarily to the fund.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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LIB

Louis-Prudent-Alexandre Robichaud

Liberal

Mr. ROBICHAUD:

But why the distinction between "collected" and "contributed"? Why use the word "collect"? It was not used in the old act, and while under the old act contributions may have been voluntary in theory, in practice a gun was held up at you.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

I know that the patriotic

fund was purely a voluntary fund. I have no doubt that the provinces gave the municipalities the right to issue debentures in order to contribute to the fund, but I am quite certain from all the reports that I have read that all funds were raised by voluntary contribution, and I have never heard anything to the contrary.

As to the distinction between the words "collect" and "contribute," I assume the word "collect" would denote the action of taking the money in, and that "contribution" would denote the action of giving money out to the fund, but I should not like to give the Webster definition of the terms. I am not quite sure

that both words are absolutely necessary, but generally they indicate what would be the duty of the corporation.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
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LIB

Louis-Prudent-Alexandre Robichaud

Liberal

Mr. ROBICHAUD:

All I can say is that

contributions may have been voluntary in the sense that the Sudetenland was given voluntarily to Germany and to Hitler. That was supposed to have been done voluntarily, but actually it was far from being voluntary.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
Permalink

Section agreed to. Sections 5 to 15 inclusive agreed to. On the preamble.


LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

I have an amendment to

suggest to the preamble to bring it into line with the amendment to clause 3, and I will ask my colleague to move it.

Topic:   CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ASSISTANCE TO DEPENDENTS OF OFFICERS AND MEN ON ACTIVE SERVICE
Permalink

September 11, 1939