June 3, 1939

LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Right Hon. ERNEST LAPOINTE (Minister of Justice):

There is no information. I do not think the Minister of Trade and Commerce has any.

Topic:   UNITED STATES WHEAT SUBSIDY
Subtopic:   REPORTED FIXING OF ADVANCE ON 1939 CROP AT 87 CENTS MINNEAPOLIS
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SALT FISH BOARD

CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS


Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of National Revenue) moved the second reading of and concurrence in amendments made by the Senate to Bill No. 130, to provide for the constitution of a salt fish board. He said: The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Michaud) has asked me to make a brief statement in reference to these amendments. The first amendment is a preamble. There is no objection to this preamble. It is intended, I think, to make it clearer that the objects of the bill are as stated by the Minister of Fisheries in the House of Commons and also by him again before the banking and commerce committee of the Senate. It is acceptable.


CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

Is the preamble short?

Topic:   SALT FISH BOARD
Subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

It is short, three paragraphs.

Topic:   SALT FISH BOARD
Subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

The bill has not been printed. Perhaps the minister would read the preamble.

Topic:   SALT FISH BOARD
Subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

The preamble reads:

Whereas various causes of as well foreign as domestic origin have produced within the eastern provinces of Canada, with relation to fishermen, meaning fishermen producers, an emergent condition whereunder such fishermen are unable to obtain for fish intended for export prices sufficient to enable them to continue production of fish for such purpose;

IMr. Stevens.]

And whereas the trade and commerce of Canada is, by reason of the premises, prejudiced and impaired;

Therefore, to the end that such fishermen may secure for their fish prices sufficient to enable continuance of production.

The next amendment provides that after the words "the chairman'' the words "who shall be an officer of the Department of Fisheries" shall be inserted. There is no objection to his being an officer of the Department of Fisheries; indeed the minister stated in the debate in this house that the board would really be a branch or arm of the Department of Fisheries.

The next amendment provides that:

The other two members shall be appointed as representatives of the fishermen producers, whether cooperative or otherwise.

There is no objection to this. There never was.

The next amendment is that the word "produce" be changed to "producer." That was a clerical error and has been corrected.

Topic:   SALT FISH BOARD
Subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

Which amendment was ordered in this house.

Topic:   SALT FISH BOARD
Subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yes, I believe so. The next amendment is to section 6, to insert at the beginning of paragraph (a) the words:

on such terms and conditions as may be deemed necessary to ensure that such assistance reaches the fishermen producers.

This amendment again is in accordance with the intentions in regard to the administration of the bill as expressed by the minister and by myself here. The only question that arises under this amendment is whether it introduces into the measure an element of rigidity of administration which will make it difficult or impossible on exceptional occasions to obtain or retain some foreign markets. But on consideration it is not certain that will be the effect, and the government have decided to accept this amendment on the understanding that if any difficulties of administration do arise the difficulty will have to be met by an amendment in due course at some future session.

The next amendment is to take section 9 out of the bill. It was probably an unnecessary section; personally I think it added nothing to the bill, and nothing is lost by taking it out. The other amendment is merely clerical, renumbering sections 10, 11 and 12 as 9, 10 and 11, so that all the amendments are acceptable.

Topic:   SALT FISH BOARD
Subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. H. H. STEVENS (Kootenay East):

I merely desre to say that this is an excellent illustration of the value of having legislation from this house pass through another sphere before becoming law. Personally I believe

Central Mortgage Bank

these amendments have met, in large measure at least, some of the views we expressed during the discussion of the bill; I welcome the amendments and, if I may, congratulate the government upon its wisdom in accepting them.

Topic:   SALT FISH BOARD
Subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
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IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. A. W. NEILL (Comox-Alberni):

I should like to congratulate the hon. member for Kootenay East (Mr. Stevens), the hon. member for St. Lawrence-St. George (Mr. Cahan) and myself upon having been upheld by the wisdom of the upper house in giving us so much of what we fought for so unsuccessfully just a few days ago.

Topic:   SALT FISH BOARD
Subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
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Motion agreed to, amendments read the second time and concurred in.



SUSPENSION OF SITTING


LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Right Hon. ERNEST LAPOINTE (Minister of Justice):

I understand that the senate is now considering the report of its banking and commerce committee on the centra] mortgage bank bill. I would move that the sitting of the house be suspended until 4.30 p.m. If there are any amendments and these are acceptable, prorogation will take place at the time which has been fixed, namely, five o'clock. If conferences on the amendments are necessary, at the proper time I will move that the house adjourn until some time tonight.

Topic:   SALT FISH BOARD
Subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
Permalink

Motion agreed to. At 3.25 p.m. the sitting was suspended until 4.30 p.m. this day. The house resumed at 4.30 p.m.


LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

Mr. Speaker I move that the sitting be suspended until eight o'clock this evening. A motion has just been adopted in the senate referring the central mortgage bank bill back to the banking and commerce committee for the purpose of considering an amendment. Obviously the bill cannot come back to us before eight o'clock.

Topic:   SALT FISH BOARD
Subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SENATE AMENDMENTS
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Motion agreed to. At 4.35 p.m. the sitting was suspended until 8 p.m. this day. After Recess The house resumed at eight o'clock. CENTRAL MORTGAGE BANK


PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, ETC.-CONSIDERATION OF SENATE AMENDMENTS


Hon. CHARLES A. DUNNING (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, the amendments made by the senate to Bill No. 132, to incorporate the central mortgage bank, have, in my opinion, the effect of depriving tens of thousands of Canadian urban residents of the benefits of the measure. Broadly, the amendments eliminate any reference throughout the bill to non-farm mortgagors. I give that explanation in order to clarify the resolution I intend to move shortly. The resolution I intend to move is one of non-concurrence by this house with that particular group of amendments. There are certain amendments suggested by the senate with which I shall deal in detail and in which I am disposed to recommend that this house concur. But with respect to the main amendments proposed I desire to point out to this house that if they are accepted here they mean relieving the treasury to only a limited degree, but relieving the mortgage lending institutions to a major degree in connection with that vital feature under which they agree, if they become members, to reduce the rate of interest on non-farm mortgages within the ambit of the bill to 51 per cent. As this house is well aware, the major expense to the dominion treasury is in connection with those adjustment features of the bill which relate to farm mortgages. If the senate amendments are accepted it means that the dominion treasury bears that major share of the expense contemplated by the original bill, but that the urban residents of Canada, the urban mortgagors, lose the advantages which the terms of the bill provide should be conveyed to them by the lending institutions without any assistance from the dominion treasury. I think these reasons are sufficient for the resolution which I am about to move, as follows: That a message be sent to the senate to acquaint their honours that this house agrees to their amendments, Nos. 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 16 to Bill No. 132, an act to incorporate the central mortgage bank, and disagrees to amendments Nos. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 15, 17, 18, 19 and 20 for the following reasons: 1. Because the amendments would make it impossible to accomplish several of the fundamental objectives of the bill as passed by this house. 2. Because these amendments would deprive tens of thousands of owners of non-farm homes in all provinces of Canada of the privilege of having their mortgages adjusted in accordance with the provisions of the bill, and particularly of having the interest rate on such mortgages reduced to a rate not in excess of 51 per cent. 3. Because these amendments would result in only a relatively small saving to the dominion treasury and the cost which the treasury would still have to bear would be out of all proportion to the benefits obtained by the nation. 4. Because with these amendments the bill would not accomplish a major objective of the bill which relates to the permanent improvement of mortgage lending practices in this Central Mortgage Bank


June 3, 1939