May 30, 1939

LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I am inclined to agree with my hon. friend except for one thing, and that is that I know of no other way under parliamentary practice of making this money available when it is required. The expenses of the railway go on each month of the year, and interest obligations must be met as they become due.

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CON
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

As I say, I know of no other way of making the money available when it is required. It must be admitted that the estimate is more or less of a guess 'because no one can really estimate what the earnings of the system will be in the next twelve months. It depends on the size of the crop, on business conditions and on a number of factors that are practically unpredictable. But after a careful review of the prospects the railway makes its estimate-one may call it a guess- and the money is provided. If more is required than parliament votes we have to resort to governor general's warrants, because the money must be available when required. If less than the estimate is required we are in the happy position of not having to spend it. Each expenditure is carefully reviewed by the directors before a call is made upon the government.

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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I shall be glad to make a statement in due course.

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CON
CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

This amount is made up of a number of items.

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LIB
CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

If each department is budgeting for failure, for a deficit, the inevitable tendency is so to operate the department that it will achieve a balancing with its anticipated deficit. I have been thinking over the matter a great deal lately, and I believe this practice is one of the reasons- it may be a minor one-why we are not getting better results on the railway. Provision for interest on guaranteed bonds and such items has to be made, but I do not think we should budget for a deficit on the operating side.

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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

May I point out that there is no budgeting here for an operating deficit. This is a deficit in the financial requirements, bonded indebtedness, amounting to about $50,000,000.

Supply-Transport-Air Lines

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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

There are a great many sides to that. The point I am getting at is that each year we make provision for a deficit, and that becomes the habit of mind of that branch of the department. It is a matter of psychology.

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Item agreed to. Trans-Canada Air Lines. 590. Amount required to provide for the payment during the fiscal year 1939-40 to the Trans-Canada Air Lines (hereinafter called the air lines) upon applications approved by the Minister of Transport, made from time to time by the air lines, to the Minister of Finance and to be applied by the air lines in payment of the deficit (certified by the auditors of the air lines) arising in the calendar year 1939, $488,941.


?

George Halsey Perley

Mr. PERLEY:

There is a matter I wish to bring to the attention of the minister, but I am not sure that this is the appropriate item.

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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

It is quite all right to discuss it on this item.

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?

George Halsey Perley

Mr. PERLEY:

A number of fox farms have been established in Saskatchewan, and to-day fox farming is an important industry in that province. The minister will recall that a year ago, last spring, difficulty was created by aeroplanes flying low over some of the fox farms, resulting in a considerable loss to some of the operators of the farms at the season of the year when the litters of puppies were coming, and at such a time if the mother fox is disturbed she is in the habit of killing her young. This spring I have had complaints from perhaps a dozen fox farmers in the eastern part of Saskatchewan, from Moosomin to Regina. Our fox farms in the province are becoming quite large institutions, and the loss caused in this way can be considerable. Complaints were made to the minister last spring. One farmer in particular at Moosomin, on the Hiawatha farm, which is quite a large farm with a number of foxes, suffered severely, losing a large number of puppies. Aeroplanes are passing over there inspecting the route for what they call the radio beam, and they fly back and forth and often very low.

Has the minister received any complaints this year, and has any request been made for compensation for losses thus sustained? An effort should be made in the spring of the year to see that over certain areas the planes do not fly promiscuously round at a low altitude, disturbing the foxes. It is a difficulty which the fox farmers have to contend with, and I would ask the minister to give the matter his attention with a view to seeing

that this practice be avoided in the spring of the year. It is only for a few weeks in the spring of the year that there is this difficulty.

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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I am well aware of the complaints that have been made. I think we have had only one complaint from one of several farms, and on each occasion flying instructions were sent out that the planes were not to fly below a certain altitude in the vicinity of these ranches. It is a worry not only to the fox farmers but also to the pilots, who are just as anxious to avoid causing trouble as the fox farmers are to avoid having trouble. I think the air line is doing everything it can to avoid the trouble of which my hon. friend speaks. I have had several conversations with the officers, and I know they are very much impressed with the desirability of doing so. I know of no claims having been entered, although they may have been entered direct to the air line without my knowledge.

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LIB

Charles Benjamin Howard

Liberal

Mr. HOWARD:

Does the hon. member

remember when horses used to be afraid of automobiles?

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?

George Halsey Perley

Mr. PERLEY:

We have got past that.

That has been remedied.

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Item agreed to. Loans and investments. Cfib Loans to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation repayable with interest at a rate to be fixed by the governor in council on such terms and conditions as the governor in council may determine and to be applied in payment of expenditures on the construction, extension or improvement of capital works of the broadcasting facilities of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in Canada. Such loans, with interest, shall be a charge on the revenues of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation next after the charge imposed under the provisions of section 17 of the Canadian Broadcasting Act, 1936, and shall not exceed in the w'hole (revote $500,000), $750,000.


CON
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Of this money $500,000 is a

revote. Through an error, the money authorized as a loan for last year was not drawn out before the fiscal year closed. The balance of $250,000 is a free balance available as a loan to the corporation for capital purposes, but no allocation has been made of it to date.

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May 30, 1939