May 30, 1939

CCF

Abraham Albert Heaps

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. HEAPS:

I am quoting from an article written by Leon G. Turrou, who was a member of the federal bureau of investigation

Official Secrets

of the United States, commonly called the G-men. This item appeared in the New York Post of December 22 last. He is giving his own experience with the nazi spy movement in the United States. He continues:

We turned that over to MI-5 of the British military intelligence and I didn't want to interfere with their investigation.

A British special agent, Guy Liddell, came here to complete that phase of the_ spy ring investigation. He conferred with Major Joseph N. Dalton of G-2 United States military intelligence and myself at New York, then he went out on his own. The spy chief at Montreal was employed in an aircraft designing plant.

This is something which might be taken into consideration by the minister and the government. It goes on:

Every now and then he shipped three to five rolls of film to Germany, each roll containing 36 negatives of confidential plane designs. He also stole and copied airplane blueprints and shipped them to Germany; in addition he acted as clearing agent for all nazi spies activities in Canada.

I have quoted sufficient from this article in the New York Post to show beyond a shadow of a doubt, assuming that the writer is correct, and I believe he was speaking the truth, that there is a nazi spy ring which so far as Canada is concerned operates with its headquarters in the city of Montreal. I do not know how much information the government has on this particular aspect of the question, nor do I intend to ask the minister to inform the house. But this article from which I have quoted was written by a man who knew the inside facts, and he has given them to the world through the press. So there is no harm in putting them on Hansard in order that members who have not seen the article may get some idea of what is being done in Canada at the present time to inform foreign powers with respect to all our activities.

The measure before us was no doubt designed to put a stop, so far as it can, to such activities; but how far it will go no one can say. I do hope, however, that the matters which I have just drawn to the attention of the government will in themselves be a sufficient incentive for them to go ahead and root out wherever they possibly can the men who are carrying on this kind of espionage in this country.

There is just one other matter to which I shall refer only briefly, because it can be raised on the estimates of the Department of Justice. It is the question of nazi propaganda in Canada, whereby an incentive is offered to certain men to carry out activities as foreign agents which but for this kind of propaganda they probably would not be in a position to do. That is all I shall say at the 71492-297J '

moment, but I may have more to say with regard to nazi activities generally throughout this dominion when the estimates of the Minister of Justice are before the house.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink
LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

I suppose my hon. friend is expecting some answer.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink
CCF

Abraham Albert Heaps

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. HEAPS:

No.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink
LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

Very well.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink
CCF

Abraham Albert Heaps

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. HEAPS:

Unless the minister has anything to add, after what I have said.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink
LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

No. I

will just repeat that the government is keeping itself well informed as to what is going on in the field which my hon. friend has indicated. My own conviction is that as regards nazi or fascist or communist activities in Canada, I am happy to say, neither the genuine imported articles nor their spurious local imitations are in any sense a serious political factor in any part of Canada. Of course since the war this new technique of international propaganda has been a rather disagreeable feature of political life in all countries; it has become an established routine of various governments and organizations to endeavour to stir up class and racial prejudice abroad as a means of carrying out their own political views; and in times of difficulty and depression, such as the one which the world has gone through, these seeds may be more dangerous, being sown on some fertile soil. Without mentioning anybody, I may say that on some occasions the government has reminded agents or representatives of foreign governments that their duties do not include a proprietary interest in the activities of naturalized Canadian citizens who may have been once nationals of their countries.

May I say that ninety-five per cent of our foreign population are opposed to the views which some people are trying to instil into them; they are loyal to the Canada to which they have come to establish themselves and their families; and it would be a mistake as well as gross unfairness to attribute to all the former nationals of certain countries the views which some propagandists are trying to spread in Canada.

I repeat that, despite a certain amount of flamboyant advertising, anti-democratic movements within Canada have not made any headway. I hope that Canadian common sense will always be an obstacle to their making the headway they would like to make.

We believe in the necessity and utility of freedom of speech and in the vigilant preservation of the institutions which make it possible. We cannot, preserve democracy by

Official Secrets

throwing away the freedom of discussion which is the essential and indispensable basis of free government. But I add this, that no theory of free speech confers any right on foreign agencies which have betrayed it to claim its protection for their efforts to intervene in our affairs for their own ends.

f think that is all I need say at this stage. If my hon. friend raises the question at another stage I shall be pleased to add something.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink
CCF

Abraham Albert Heaps

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. HEAPS:

I am obliged to the Minister of Justice for the statement he has just made. I purposely refrained from going into this question of the other form of activity because I .thought it might just as well be brought up when we discuss the estimates of the Department of Justice. I agree very largely, almost entirely, with what has been said by the Minister of Justice, except that I do not think that under present circumstances I can altogether agree with his reference to the disruptive forces of nazism, fascism and communism. I know a good deal about these three forces; but it seems to me that in these days, when Russia is expected to come to the rescue of some of the other democratic nations, when she is to become part of the anti-aggression bloc, we should not lump together those three influences in so far as the question of peace or war is concerned; for we recognize to-day the totalitarian states as being a menace to the peace of the world.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink
LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

I am afraid I shall keep on disagreeing with my hon. friend. Whatever military pacts are entered into in European countries. I shall abhor communism as such as much as the other two.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink

Section agreed to. . On section 2-Interpretation.


LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East) moved:

That paragraph (a) of section 2 be struck out and the following substituted therefor: fa) Any reference to His Majesty means His Majesty in right of Canada or of any province.

Tnat is in order to make it clear; and it will apply all over the bill.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink

Amendment agreed to.


LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

There is another amendment:

That subparagraph (iii) of paragraph (i) of section (2) of the said bill be amended by striking out the words "an enemy" in the .'Cird and 34th lines on page two of the said bill and substituting therefor the words "a foreign power."

(n time of peace there is no enemy.

(Mr. E. Lapointe.]

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink

Amendment agreed to. Section as amended agreed to. Sections 3, 4 and 5 agreed to. On section 6-Interfering with officers of the police or members of His Majesty's forces.


LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

This is a very small amendment:

That section 6 be amended by striking out the word "or" in the first line thereof and by substituting therefor the word "of."

It is a clerical error.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink

Amendment agreed to. Section as amended agreed to. Sections 7 to 9 inclusive agreed to. On section 10-Power to arrest without warrant.


LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

The word "or'' before the word "having" in line 34 should be struck out and the word "of" substituted. I move that amendment.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink

Amendment agreed to. Section as amended agreed to. Section 11 agreed to. On section 12-Prosecution only with consent of Attorney General.


LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

Could not speedier action be taken? Under section 11 authority is given the justice of the peace to issue a search warrant to a constable. The constable, searches the house and if he believes that the person against whom the warrant is issued is guilty of a crime under the act he must wait until authority is granted by the Attorney General of Canada. I suggest that he should be able to act more expeditiously.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink
LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

The

proviso covers that point:

Provided that a person charged with such an offence may be arrested, or a warrant for his arrest may 'be issued and executed and any such person may be remanded in custody or on bail, notwithstanding that the consent of the attorney general to the institution of a prosecution for the offence has not been obtained.

The accused will be kept in custody until proceedings are effectively instituted.

Topic:   OFFICIAL SECRETS
Subtopic:   CONSOLIDATION OF IMPERIAL STATUTES TO FORM PART OF LAW OF CANADA
Permalink

Section agreed to. Section 13 agreed to. On section 14-Penalties.


May 30, 1939