May 26, 1939

CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

Yes.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

That is to say, if a legislature enacts legislation affecting the conditions as applying to mortgages adjusted under this act, and some one or more companies do not wish to come under the scheme, then they will not receive the benefit within that province of the easier legislation which may be made by the province to apply only to mortgages the subject of adjustment under this act. I want that to be clear to all hon. members.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

The section will need to be clarified a bit in order to give it that meaning.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Possibly there may be needed a little clarification. My hon. friend sees the point I am making.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I can see the two points which the minister has tried to make which are not expressed in the legislation.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Well, if my hon. friend sees it, it must have been fairly clear.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I know my intellect is dull; for I seldom understand the hon. gentleman.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

If a company comes under this act, the people who are dealing with this company are removed from the protection of any other debtor legislation which may exist in that province; is not that right?

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

I would not say, any other, but any legislation which in the opinion of the central bank would have the effect of impairing the dominion's security. The variety is so great that one cannot particularize it. It differs in each province.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

The difficulty I see with regard to the minister's answer is that of a province having one piece of legislation applying to one group of people within the province, and another piece of legislation applying to another.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

It would apply not to the people but to their mortgages.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

Well, to one group of mortgages in comparison with another group of mortgages.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

That difficulty always arises when the dominion enters the provincial field and attempts indirectly to overcome provincial legislation.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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SC

René-Antoine Pelletier

Social Credit

Mr. PELLETIER:

As it does in this case.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

The dominion enters the field and endeavours to override this provincial legislation. That, I think, is one point we shall have to understand and weigh very carefully indeed before we support this particular provision.

Central Mortgage Bank

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

No point has given me greater difficulty, and I would welcome any suggestion to meet it better than it is met here, although I doubt-

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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?

Leslie Gordon Bell

Mr. COLD WELL:

Of course the minister has the advantage of the advice of the law officers of the crown. I am afraid that I cannot advise him legally in any particular. I am just pointing that out as I see it in reading the bill. What I am saying is this, that a large number of mortgages may not receive the benefits which are implied in this legislation-[DOT]

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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LIB

Malcolm McLean

Liberal

Mr. McLEAN (Melfort):

Immediately.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

-immediately, and it seems to me that that is a weakness. Particularly it is a weakness when we are dealing with individual cases; because, as I think we have found from experience, the individual is often a mortgagee who is unwilling to make the adjustment for the other individual, and that is understandable. The large corporation or company with its tremendous reserves and resources can, of course, afford to bear a loss when an individual cannot do so.

I want also to get clearly in my mind the basis of adjustment under the act. The appraiser values the property on which the company holds a mortgage. Let us say that the new valuation placed upon the farm is $15,000. But there happens to be a mortgage in excess of that amount-let us say, of $18,000. In the west a case of that sort is quite likely to occur, because many of the mortgages were put on land in times of relatively high prices of property. If we need to find any proof of that, I believe bulletin No. 64, which was quoted quite extensively in the wheat legislation debate a short time ago, will give the desired information. Under the agreement the adjusted mortgage would be 80 per cent of the $15,000, or $12,000. If the company had to bear the entire loss it would stand to lose $6,000.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Plus any arrears of interest in excess of two years.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR INCORPORATION, PURCHASE OF SHARES, ETC.-CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON MOTION FOR SECOND READING
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May 26, 1939