May 18, 1939

CON

Grote Stirling

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STIRLING:

I suppose the basic price agreed to years ago is the price that holds to-day? In future when cordite is required and there is only one source of supply in Canada, the purchasing board will have to deal with this one contractor. I suppose the board will be governed by the five per cent clause in the legislation.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

Yes, presumably.

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CON

Grote Stirling

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STIRLING:

What will be the position if the one producer of cordite is unable to meet these terms? Where will the government turn to for its cordite?

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

My own opinion is that under the terms of the legislation, wide discretionary power is vested in the purchasing board with reference to allowances for depreciation and the like. It certainly is not the intention to make any source of supply impossible; the intention is rather to eliminate improper profits in connection with this type of contract. If the situation outlined by my hon. friend arose I can assure him that steps would be taken immediately to see that our source of supply of any essential commodity would not be unduly restricted.

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LIB

Thomas Bruce McNevin

Liberal

Mr. McNEVIN:

I have discussed most of the items in which I have a definite interest, and I have also been in conference with the senior officials of the department. I understand there are a number of items which are definitely required by the department. I refer particularly to rifles in large quantities, gas masks, small arms ammunition and anti-aircraft guns and mountings. I understand there is a need of 123 equipments of different types, 348 anti-tank equipments, 504 field gun equipments, 544 infantry mortars as well as a number of medium guns. I do not want to prolong the discussion; I simply want to point out that we have at Lindsay a factory that is up to date in every particular. These items cannot be secured from England and there is dire need for much of this equipment. I

suggest that the production at Lindsay should be definitely increased during the coming year, and that the greatest possible use be made of the plant there.

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CON

Frank Exton Lennard

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNARD:

What are the Canadian sources for mobile ammunition, and how far has the development of these sources progressed?

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

To what calibre is the hon. member referring?

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CON

Frank Exton Lennard

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNARD:

It is mentioned in the details at page 126, the development of Canadian sources of production of mobile ammunition.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

There

are two sources of supply in regard to the one calibre, one is the arsenal, for restricted quantities, and the other the Montreal Construction Company for somewhat larger quantities. The results there have been very satisfactory, and the costs at which they are producing are substantially below the costs at the arsenal.

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CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

What are the plans of the department for getting this ammunition? Is it proposed to manufacture certain types in the arsenals exclusively and to have other types manufactured by private firms, or just what is the arrangement? Also, have any other shell contracts been let?

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

No

other shell contracts have been let in Canada. The general policy would be to expand the arsenals as much as we can, mostly for the manufacture of small arms ammunition, and to cooperate with industry for limited production of quantities which it would be uneconomical for any government to manufacture.

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CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

The plan is to use the

dominion arsenals as pilot plants for the manufacture of field ammunition?

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

The

dominion arsenal at Quebec is up to its production limit of shell ammunition with its present accommodation. That is one reason why a pilot plant was commenced in Montreal. What the policy will be for actual work at the Lindsay arsenal has not been definitely decided. There are two or three alternatives-to build up a reserve of ammunition, or to have the same work as that done by the Montreal Construction Company. A decision will be made shortly.

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Item agreed to. Supply-National Defence Militia services. 180. Chargeable to capital account (commitments $2,553,330), $759,835.


CCF

Charles Grant MacNeil

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. MacNEIL:

I do not think we have finished with item 177.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

I understand that items 177 and 178 were carried together, but if my hon. friend wishes to revert to a particular item I shall be glad to have him do so. According to the votes and proceedings item 176 was carried and also 207, but they are omitted from the official records.

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CCF

Charles Grant MacNeil

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. MacNEIL:

Hansard shows that items 177 and 178 were not carried.

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LIB

Frederick George Sanderson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Item 207 was not carried, and item 177 is not carried; it is marked "stand".

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CCF

Angus MacInnis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. MacINNIS:

Item 176 is carried,

according to Hansard.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

I move that item 177 be carried now.

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May 18, 1939