May 8, 1939

UFOL

Agnes Campbell Macphail

United Farmers of Ontario-Labour

Miss MACPHAIL:

And of his own

conscience.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. HANSELL:

The hon. member for Grey-Bruce (Miss Macphail) has said " and of his own conscience." I wonder how he is going to answer his constituency in the light of the petition which was offered to-night by the hon. member for The Battlefords (Mr. Needham). It is so heavy I can hardly hold it up.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

That petition asks for Bill No. 83.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. HANSELL:

I believe that the hon. member may have had a similar petition. At any rate the government got from his constituency a petition signed by nearly 6,000 people, almost as many votes as the hon. member for Rosthern got in the last election.

For a few moments I should like to review the history of price setting by governments. First, let me allude to the Conservative administration which brought in legislation to establish the wheat board. I believe that that was a good move. The Conservative government set a price of 87J cents for wheat. They never had to pay anything because the price did not go down to the pegged price. The Liberals were returned to office in 1935, and the following year they passed an order in council which virtually did away with the chief function of the wheat

Prairie Farm Assistance

board; that is, the wheat board would not receive any grain from the western farmer until the price dropped to 90 cents. The result was that the farmers of western Canada lost millions of dollars to the grain trade. I contended at that time that this action was beyond the powers of the government.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
SC

Victor Quelch

Social Credit

Mr. QUELCH:

It was not disallowed, either.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. HANSELL:

A year later the Liberal government set the pegged price of grain at 80 cents. This year the price is to be 70 cents. I know that some Liberal speakers have played up the term "initial" price, but we have not heard the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) or any other speaker on the government side intimate for a moment that the price is likely to be fixed eventually at higher than 70 cents. It is a foregone conclusion in the minds of agriculturists that the price of grain this year will be tantamount to a fixed price of 70 cents.

May I ask why there has been a fluctuation of pegged prices? At one time it was 874 cents, at another SO cents, and this year it is 70 cents. If once upon a time it was 874 cents, and that was a reasonable figure at which to set the price, it must be right this year to set the same price. The cost of production has not gone down. I cannot give the Conservative government a great deal of credit for setting a price of 874 cents, for I think it reasonable to conclude that the policy of government seems to be to look over the world situation, to consider the surpluses and the grain situation generally and as it may appear to be in the coming months, and then to try to guess a figure to which the world price will not fall.

It is true that for the last crop year the government will have to bonus the wheat farmer perhaps thirty or forty million dollars.

I am wondering whether, if the government had known last year that the price would drop, involving such a bonus, they would have set the price at 80 cents. I affirm again that if the set price of 874 cents was reasonable one year then it is reasonable this year.

I believe that the reason why the price has not been set at 80 cents or 874 cents is that the government recognize that it is a money problem. They recognize that this year it may cost them something if they set the price any higher than 70 cents. The money problem seems to be worrying the government in this connection. But I do not see why they have any need to be worried. I recall those great and flashing speeches and promises preceding the last general election when they said that they would do battle with the money powers and issue currency and

credit in terms of public need. They said they would issue currency and credit in terms of industrial need-in terms of domestic need. Surely the great wheat-growing industry of this country is in need. Yet now they seem frightened lest they should have to pay a little bit in order to keep that wheat-growing industry on its feet. I see the hon. member for Rosthern is not in his seat, perhaps he is getting his breath behind the screen; oh, he appears again. I cannot follow his logic when he says that to vote against this bill will destroy the program, or to vote against this government will destroy the program. Surely he must recognize that there are people in Canada who are just as capable of bringing down legislation as is the Liberal government.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

No, no.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
LIB

Charles Benjamin Howard

Liberal

Mr. HOWARD:

That is beyond question.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. HANSELL:

I say that when once there is a progressive government sitting on the treasury benches, progressive along the lines of monetary reform, as the hon.. member for Rosthern preaches, they will be able to bring down legislation that will give the farmers of western Canada the cost of production of their crop, plus a profit that they can live on.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

If they have to wait that long, it will be too bad for the farmers of western Canada.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. HANSELL:

I suppose the hon. member for Rosthern can make a guess which may be as true as mine. But an election will tell the tale.

I said that the money problem seems to be worrying the present government. When the hon. member for Bow River (Mr. Johnston) brought in his resolution a few weeks ago asking for a minimum price of 95 cents, the hon. member for Lethbridge (Mr. Blackmore) spoke to that resolution. He had not got very far in his speech when one of the ministers "twigged" that he was attempting to show the government how they could get the money to pay 95 cents a bushel; and what happened? Of course that minister raised a point of order, and the hon. member for Lethbridge was ruled out of order. I say that with no reflection whatsoever on the chair, but simply to bring out the picture of that day's debate. I read it in Hansard the other day, and if anyone will turn over just two pages he will find that the Minister of Agriculture spoke on the resolution and bemoaned the fact that it was impossible to pay such a bonus because they did not have the money. Well, we have been trying for a long time to tell them where they can get the money.

Prairie Farm Assistance

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
?

An hon. MEMBER:

Just print it.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. HANSELL:

I did not catch that

remark, but someone tells me it did not amount to anything. In this debate there has been a good deal said concerning east and west. I am not going to say very much along that line. Enough has been said about tariffs and so on. This agricultural problem can be solved to the entire satisfaction of the whole Dominion of Canada by a proper adjustment of the money system. But just so long as we have a government operating within the confines and framework of the present financial system, the problems of this country from coast to coast will never be solved to the satisfaction of all sections. It is the government's insistence on remaining under this present financial system that is causing the disunity in Canada to-day. Let no hon. member of the Liberal party say that those of us who are progressive are trying to upset the unity of this dominion. It is policies that can lead only to sectionalism that are wrecking the unity of this country, and these policies are within the control of any sitting government.

The hon. member for Wood Mountain (Mr. Donnelly) this afternoon referred to correspondence; he said that we are coming to conclusions on the basis of correspondence, that we have not been out there, that we did not get the feel of the people of western Canada. Well, it happens that I was out there at Easter time, just a day or two after the Minister of Agriculture had announced his wheat policy. One of the first men I met came to me and said, "What do you think of the government's wheat policy?" I looked at him and said, "What do you think?" "Oh," he said, "let it go down to nothing; the sooner we split from eastern Canada the better." That hurt me. If there is one thing that the Social Credit forces of Canada stand for, it is a united Canada. We believe that it can be united by a proper money policy to deal with all these various problems.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
LIB

Joseph-Hermas Leclerc

Liberal

Mr. LECLERC:

Money from the east.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. HANSELL:

No, not money from the east. My hon. friend has not the proper money technique at all. He still thinks that the only place to get money is from the east. Social credit as a movement is loyal to this country and to the unity of this country. The leader of this movement in Alberta is continually putting before the people that this is a great Canada and that we must not countenance a single suggestion of a break between the east and the west. I suppose the members of this group have attended perhaps more political meetings during the last six years

than most other members of this house. Not a political meeting do we attend at which the national anthem is not sung; not a political meeting do we attend which is not closed with the singing of 0, Canada; and if you want to hear people really sing you should come out to Alberta. I make that statement because it is my firm conviction that the only thing which will bring about a really united Canada is a change in the money policy that will give security and contentment to the citizens of Canada; and where you have a contented people you never have dissension.

Just here I should like to refer to a statement which I was sorry to hear the Minister of Agriculture make the other night while endeavouring to give an illustration in regard to the wheat and coal policies of western Canada, showing that western coal could not be brought east. He referred to a meeting between the dominion cabinet and some members of the Alberta government and stated that when he asked the premier of Alberta how coal could be brought from Regina to eastern Canada and sold for less than imported coal, the premier said, "That is your problem." The impression he left with the house was that the premier meant it was a personal problem of the minister.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

No.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. HANSELL:

The hon. member for Mel-fort (Mr. McLean) says no. Then he means it is the government's problem. All right; I am glad he mentioned that. It is the government's problem.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
LIB

Malcolm McLean

Liberal

Mr. McLEAN (Melfort):

If the hon. member would permit a question, was it not part of the problem of the man who was making the suggestion, who would gain from the shipment of western coal more than any other public man would gain? Was it not part of his own problem?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. HANSELL:

Yes, but he cannot solve the problem of bringing western coal to eastern Canada when the dominion government, through the transport commission, has control over the setting of freight rates. He cannot solve that problem while this government has jurisdiction over the money policy of the country. I was sorry to hear the Minister of Agriculture give that illustration. I do not want to be unkind to the minister, but I am going to say this: It was extremely unethical to give the substance of a conversation that took place at a cabinet meeting, when the other man concerned had no chance of defending himself.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
?

An hon. MEMBER:

It was not a cabinet meeting.

Prairie Farm Assistance

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink

May 8, 1939