May 1, 1939

CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

I thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not wish to discuss the bill.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

That is what the hon. member is doing.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

What I want to discuss is that the minister, speaking with reference to wheat, said:

Twenty bushels to the acre of wheat can be produced at a cost of from 30 to 40 cents a bushel. For every bushel a man gets over 20 his costs per bushel decrease.

And when he was asked from this side of the house on what he based that estimate, he said:

Estimates have been made by authorities in Saskatchewan university, and there are also the figures submitted by the Saskatchewan government to the Rowell commission.

No such conclusions have ever been reached either by the authorities in Saskatchewan university or by anyone else. The minister, very likely, is basing his statement on an estimate by Professor Hope which was given to a conference on markets for western farm products, held in Winnipeg last December. Professor Hope pointed out, according to page 151 of the conference report, that on mechanized farms of the best land which could be procured in Saskatchewan-and he pointed out that only one per cent of the farms of Saskatchewan came into that classification-wheat could be produced, on a halfsection farm, for 55 cents; on a section farm, for 44 cents, and on a two-section farm, for 34 cents. But, he said, to that must be added 17 cents for debt charges, which, he said, worked out on a half-section farm, at 72 cents, on a section farm at 61 cents, and on a two-section farm at 51 cents.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

The debt was stated to be fifty-two dollars per acre.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

Exactly.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

How many farmers in Saskatchewan have a fifty-two dollar debt per acre?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weybum):

And how many farms come under the classification Professor Hope gives here, which can produce wheat at that price?

3392 COMMONS

The Budget-Mr. Douglas (Weyburn)

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

There are not very many under that debt classification.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

On page 152 of the same report Professor Hope said:

Conservatively it would probably require with average yields a farm price for wheat of

average grade-

Not No. 1 northern.

-of about 90 cents,-

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Read the sentence just before that.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

-with coarse grains in proportion to maintain a reasonable level of living and service the present debt on western farms. It would require somewhat more than this to restore the farming community to the condition of 1931.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Read the conclusion immediately preceding that.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

That is his conclusion.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

No, no.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

If the minister wants to make a speech on this, he is at liberty to do so after I have finished mine.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

He would be out of order.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

I should be out of order, as the hon. member is.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

The minister is a farmer, or at least he supports a farm; and I maintain that he cannot grow wheat for 30 or 40 cents a bushel.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
?

An hon. MEMBER:

Did you ever grow any?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

No minister when he makes a statement of that kind is doing a service to western Canada.

At the same time that the minister was preparing his legislation, a group of men representing different phases of western agriculture have been giving this matter very serious consideration. A conference was called by Professor John Bracken of Manitoba, which sat in Winnipeg from December 12 to December 15 inclusive. That conference appointed a continuations committee which met in Regina and Saskatoon on successive occasions and prepared statements to be presented to the government. On Wednesday, March 1, that committee presented the brief, a copy of which I hold in my hand, to the dominion cabinet. Since that time they have appeared before the government, on April 24, and made further representations to them. Let me read a list of the organizations which are represented by accredited delegates to that convention:

r.Mr. T. C. Douglas.]

The United Farmers of Alberta, the United Farmers of Manitoba; the United Farmers of Canada (Saskatchewan section); the boards of trade of Regina, Saskatoon, Edmonton and Calgary; the Alberta Wheat Pool; Manitoba pool elevators; the Saskatchewan Wheat Pool; the North West Grain Dealers' Association, the United Grain Growers, the Alberta Municipal Association and the Manitoba government. To these names may be added scores of municipal councils, boards of trade and city councils, who sent petitions to the government asking that the wheat board be retained and that the minimum price be not less than 80 cents a bushel. In addition to that, members of parliament in Saskatchewan have received a petition from farmers in that province whose names were collected by the Saskatchewan wheat pool, covering twenty constituencies and numbering 155.000 men. Since that time, I believe, Wood Mountain has been added, bringing the signatories of the petition to more than 160,000.

Over against this array of organizations and individuals who are known for their interest in the welfare of western Canada, who is asking for a fixed price of 60 cents per bushel? Certainly it is not the Liberal party.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEDATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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May 1, 1939