April 21, 1939

LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Douglas Gooderham Ross

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROSS (St. Paul's):

The point I

wished to make was: If Ontario does not

make application and Toronto does, then in view of the fact that this project is, to my mind, more in the nature of a harbour project, certainly not a direct municipal project, but something that is'forced on Toronto by treaty, would it. not be possible for the dominion government, under the circumstances prevailing to-day, to enter into an arrangement with Toronto so that a portion of this work might be gone on with without the matter having to go through the province?

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

In any apportionment of

funds made available under this measure for civic improvements in Ontario, we shall have to consider the situation in the province as a whole in order that there may be as fair as possible an allocation of the funds among the various centres of population where unemployment exists in an acute degree. I am sorry that I cannot go beyond what I have already said with respect to the possibility of a dominion contribution towards a section of this sewage project in Toronto.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Douglas Gooderham Ross

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROSS (St. Paul's):

As I understood him, the minister said that in some instances there was an equal contribution by the provinces, and that in other instances there was no contribution by the provinces. Why, in this instance, make an exception of the city of Toronto? Am I right when I say that there is no contribution by some of the provinces?

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

My hon. friend has not understood me correctly when he states that I said in some instances there was no contribu-

3040 COMMONS

Unemployment and Agricultural Distress

tion by the provinces. I said that different methods of contribution had been adopted under the various agreements with the provinces and that no compulsion in the matter has been exercised by the dominion government. We have applied our own appropriations for relief works to programs of such works submitted to us by the provincial governments. Sometimes those works were provincial; sometimes they were municipal. But there has been, I think, invariably a contribution from the provincial government. I can recall one exception to that, where certain work was done on a playground in the city of Toronto, but that was done under an agreement with the provincial government, not directly by agreement with the municipality.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Denton Massey

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MASSEY:

Earlier this evening the minister referred to the differences in the methods of applying these grants in aid in the various provinces. For example, Ontario applied its grant in a certain way, whereas Quebec did it in another way. May I ask, in the making of these agreements with the provinces, do the provinces state the manner in which the grant in aid will be applied?

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

No. Actually the clause in the agreement governs the manner in which the grant in aid is expended. In its present form that agreement was recommended by the national employment commission. The clause is as follows:

Whenever used in this agreement or any schedule thereof, the word "minister" shall mean the Minister of Labour for Canada and the term "material aid" shall mean either food, fuel, clothing and shelter (or any of them) supplied to individuals in necessitous circumstances, or, the costs of carrying on works or training projects specifically designated by the province as projects intended to provide such individuals when employed thereon (other than supervisory personnel) the equivalent of food, fuel, clothing and shelter (or any of them) which otherwise would have to be supplied to those individuals, provided in each ease that a schedule setting forth a description of the project, the estimated total cost thereof and the specific cost to which the dominion will contribute has been approved in writing by the minister.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Denton Massey

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MASSEY:

But there is nothing in there about rates of wages, rates of pay and so on?

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

No.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Denton Massey

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MASSEY:

Essentially we are buying a pig in a poke. It is up to the province to do anything it wishes?

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

No. There is another clause which provides that fair wages shall be paid.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Denton Massey

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MASSEY:

Does that apply to a scale of wages which is not a relief scale but current rates of pay for that type of work?

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

Sometimes by agreement provinces have carried on what might be termed relief works. That is to say, those who work earn their relief with a certain oremium over and above what normally they would receive for relief. But one must remember tL*t the question of wages is under provincial legislation.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Denton Massey

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MASSEY:

Quite so.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

And there has to be a certain amount of accommodation of these plans to a variety of provincial conditions.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Denton Massey

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MASSEY:

In regard to hostels for the transient unemployed, is the cost of hostels maintained in part under this grant as well, or is that a separate matter?

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

Not under the grant in aid, as a general rule, although there would be nothing to exclude it. Sometimes special arrangements are made for single unemployed men in hostels through a grant which is made available under the item in the supplementary estimates which was before the committee just before adjournment last night, that is the item for assistance to single unemployed persons.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Denton Massey

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MASSEY:

That is why I asked the question. I did not know whether it came from this grant or the other.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

For the most part I should say that, now we have reached the new percentage basis, those in hostels will qualify under that fifty per cent for transients.

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Denton Massey

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MASSEY:

Then it would seem to me desirable that there should be some federal supervision of these hostels if we are paying for them in part-forty per cent, or whatever it may be. At the moment is there any supervision?

Topic:   UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
Permalink

April 21, 1939