April 18, 1939

LIB

Norman McLeod Rogers (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. ROGERS:

I suppose the drought in western Canada might have had some effect.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

Reference has been made to a statement contained in the Scriptures about the poor being with us always. I find here certain opinions expressed by Mrs. Harriet Boyd Hawes, a lady who has had a distinguished career as an archaeologist. I should like to put this on Hansard for the benefit of hon. members who have been quoting from the Scriptures.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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CON

John Alexander (1874-1948) Macdonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MACDONALD (Brantford):

What is the hon. member quoting from?

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

I am quoting from evidence given before the committee on banking and currency of the house of representatives of the United States:

Of valid economics predating the power age there remains not a vestige. Of valid economies predating the intensive and intensive and extensive use of electricity there will soon exist only rags and tatters. We still have to thank Adam Smith for insisting "Consumption is the sole end and purpose of production"; but the old form of the law of demand and supply is outmoded, since supply has become practically inexhaustible. We have tapped the universe for electricity and for fertilizing nitrates; we shall be able to produce substitutes for any substance whose supply fails. We are already in the age of plenty, when not a single human being need want, but we do not admit it; we are using an utterly outgrown system of economics, and we are suffering frightfully from it.

The puzzling parable of the labourer who had waited from early morning for a job and being hired at the eleventh hour, received the same pay as the one who had toiled all day, meets to-day's problem of unemployment. You remember the mysterious reference to a sin against the Holy Ghost, which was pronounced unforgivable? I am beginning to think our apathy in letting poverty continue in the midst of potential plenty is the unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit, which is striving to-day for the good of all through science and invention.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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LIB

Charles Edward Bothwell

Liberal

Mr. BOTHWELL:

On a point of order, might it not be possible for an hon. member to refer to a book without quoting it all? I object to a member taking up the time of the committee reading to us a book that is available to all hon. members.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

Is that a point of order, Mr. Chairman?

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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LIB

Frederick George Sanderson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

It is a point of order, but it is not well taken.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

I agree. The book is not available to everyone in the country, and I am reading it not for the benefit of the

2934 COMMONS

Unemployment and Agricultural Distress

hon. member but for the benefit of those who will read it and really try to understand what it conveys.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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CON

John Alexander (1874-1948) Macdonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MACDONALD (Brantford):

Is it available only to members of the Social Credit group?

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

To continue:

There need be no have-nots, whether there are jobs enough to go round or not. We are hearing to-day from the national citizens' committee at Johnstown of "The right to work"; Representative Ditter of Pennsylvania, on July 5 said on the floor of the house, "Every American citizen has the right to work," but what they mean is a right to work when a job is given a man, and it is to the interest of the employer that he should continue at it! Other confusing phrases are in frequent use, for example, "Favourable balance of trade" when what is meant is a continuous tilt of trade in our favour. To an archaeologist this looks plainly impossible; in the long run imports must equal exports or we go smash.

Other great statesmen in the United States have referred to unemployment, and I will place some of their views on Hansard so that he who runs may read.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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CON

John Alexander (1874-1948) Macdonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MACDONALD (Brantford):

Why

does the hon. member say "other great statesmen?"

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

Because they have a Complete appreciation of economic matters and have had years of experience in administration, and they are better qualified than either the hon. member who has just spoken or myself to express opinions on matters of this kind. Let me quote Senator Wagner in discussing relief-and this sounds a good deal different from the statements of hon. members on the Liberal side:

On June 17 Senator Wagner said to Senator Bailey in discussing relief-

I have listened to the claims of the senator from North Carolina that there is no serious unemployment problem to-day. Does he not know that the very lowest current estimate of unemployment, that of the conservative national industrial conference board, is 7,533,000, and that the average of all responsible estimates is about 9,000,000?

What, in the senator's judgment, has become of the "technologically" unemployed? He must, indeed, be familiar with the tobacco industry. Nineteen hundred and thirty-six was a banner year for that industry.

He goes on to prove that technological unemployment is here to stay and industry is displacing more and more men by the use of solar energy in place of man power. And Senator Bone said:

The advance of technology in agriculture has tended to widen the gap in general wellbeing between farmers who are able to embrace it and those who are unable to utilize the fruits of science and invention. This gap is

certain to widen . . . the man with the

hoe and the man with the tractor are not competitive equals where they are engaged in the same type of farming.

In Canada we hear from the Liberal party, "Put men back on the farm." Well, here we have unemployed men who are willing and anxious to work in our large factories manufacturing farm implements, factories that are working only twenty-five per cent of total productive capacity. That is the situation. We can mechanize our Canadian agriculture and then we do not need the farmer; when that happens we do away with a field of employment which the minister mentioned this afternoon. I asked him what fields were open to single transient unemployed, what industry offered them opportunity, and he said, "agriculture." If we could put to use the labour and materials available for employment in our factories we could mechanize the farms of Canada, and then that industry would be closed to those seeking employment. But the Minister of Labour believes that the only way in which a man can make a living is to work, and if a man does not work he will starve. We have robbed men of the right to work by substituting the machine, and now we rob men of the right to live by taking away their wages.

The leader of t'he opposition said that we had only a half-baked theory. If I could get one half-ibaked idea from the Conservative party I would be tickled to death. He referred to the Social Credit party as being out to print unlimited quantities of money. May I refer to a gentleman iwho has made a greater contribution to the world than the hon. member will ever make, a man who is recognized as one of the greatest inventors the world has ever known-Thomas Edison. What does he say? What are his views on matters of this kind? The leader of the opposition did not give me an answer to the question I asked as to what was the value of money. Let me read to him what Edison said:

The only dynamite that works in this country is the dynamite of a sound idea. I think we are getting a sound idea on the money question. The people have an instinct which tells them that something is wrong and that the wrong somehow centres in money.

Don't allow them to confuse you with the cry of "paper money." The danger of paper money is precisely the danger of gold-if you get too much it is no good. There is just one rule for money and that is to have enough to carry all the legitimate trade that is waiting to move. Too little and too much are both bad. But enough to move trade, enough to prevent stagnation on the one hand, not enough to permit speculation on the other hand, is the proper ratio.

Unemployment and Agricultural Distress

If our nation can issue a dollar bond it can issue a dollar bill. The element that makes the bond good makes the bill good also. The difference between the bond and the bill is that the bond lets money brokers collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional 20 per cent interest, whereas the currency pays nobody but those who contribute directly in some useful way.

It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30,000,000 in bonds and not $30,000,000 in currency. Both are promises to pay; but one promise fattens the usurer and the other helps the people.

It is the people who constitute the basis of government credit. Why then cannot the people have the benefit of their own gilt-edge credit by receiving non-interest-bearing currency, instead of bankers receiving the benefit of the people's credit in interest-bearing bonds? If the United States government will adopt this policy of increasing its national wealth without contributing to the interest collector-for the whole national debt is made up of interest charges-then you will see an era of progress and prosperity in this country such as could never have come otherwise.

The only function of money is to move goods. We hear Liberal members and Conservative members referring to " printing-press money " and to ourselves as " scrip teasers," when all money is just printed-paper money or figures in a book created by bankers out of nothing. Billions of dollars have been created by the banking system in Canada and the United States out of nothing-just fountain-pen money; bonds have been sold to the banking system, putting us in perpetual debt. When this matter is under discussion at a later date I intend to deal more fully with it, because there are a number of hon. members who still believe what bankers across this country are telling the people, that what they loan are the people's deposits; many people believe there is gold behind the currency, and currency behind the bank deposits. People have all kinds of buncombe told them by the banking system of Canada. If I am in order I will refer to a statement made by Mr. F. W. Pethick-Lawrence, who in 1929-1931 was financial secretary of the British treasury. He said:

I am convinced . . . that unemployment

as it exists to-day is not an economic but a monetary phenomenon

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

How do hon. members like that?

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

-a stabilized price level with neither inflation or deflation is the only workable solution.

But the Minister of Labour wants to get back the world's markets. The markets of the world will not be regained for years to come. Must we in the meanwhile destroy the youth of this country; must we break down the moral fabric of the nation by

fastening upon our people the poverty which is the result of unemployment? The Liberal government is afraid that somebody is going to get something for nothing. Why, the bondholders and the usurers of this country have drawn billions in usury; they receive each year millions for which they have given nothing. Talk about "something for nothing"! The Liberal members are getting something for nothing. They promised the people that they would solve the problem of unemployment and get rid of poverty.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. MARTIN:

What about the twenty-five dollars?

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

Never mind about

twenty-five dollars while you are sitting there and getting $4,000.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

What about your

twenty-five dollars?

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

What about our

twenty-five dollars? Who was it that stopped the giving of twenty-five dollars to the people of Alberta? We would do it if we had control of our own credit. There is nothing easier in the world than to create credit-

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. MARTIN:

That is not what the hon. member said.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

But the argument of the orthodox economist is this, what is there to redeem the money? Well, it is redeemed every time somebody is willing to give their labour for it. Currency is redeemed every time anybody in this country gives a service for it. The cost of the depression has been declared to be the difference between our actual production and the capacity of our industries to produce. That is the consequence to us of operating under the present financial system. The production of this country has been sabotaged. Our factories are working part-time. If we put our idle labour, our unused material, our brains and our factories into employment we could increase our national income by billions of dollars.

Topic:   UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT AND AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-UNDERTAKINGS IN GENERAL INTEREST AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROVINCES
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April 18, 1939