April 5, 1939

LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Our present estimate is that even if the worst conditions we have ever experienced had prevailed it could not have cost more than about $30,000,000; and that in the ordinary year it would cost somewhere between $10,000,000 and $15,000,000. The greatest amount it could cost would be half what the existing scheme may cost this year under present conditions. I may add that in order to get that last figure you would have to take in the cost of relief, which will amount to some $12,000,000, in addition to the amount paid out already in connection with wheat.

In conclusion, then, Mr. Speaker, I should like to refer again to what I said in the beginning. I bring this measure before the house for the purpose of calling attention to a situation which has existed in western Canada for many years and to efforts which have been made to cope with the situation, with a view to bringing before the house during this session other measures that are now either on the order paper in the form of resolutions or that will be on the order paper to-morrow in that form, for dealing with agriculture in other parts of Canada. Before bringing down these measures I should like if possible to have this house establish a principle that we can apply in connection with our agricultural problems throughout Canada, If that is done the same principle can be followed in dealing with the problems of the dairy industry, the live stock industry, the fruit industry and

The Royal Assent

other branches of agriculture across this country. I believe that if we can establish a principle of that kind during this session we have at least started to give Canada an agricultural policy which will lift agriculture out of some of the difficulties it is experiencing from one end of the dominion to the other. It is with that end in view that I bring this measure before the house.

I should like to say, Mr. Speaker, that I gave an undertaking to many of the western men who left last night and the night before, that after making this speech I would delay further discussion if possible until they returned. With the permission of the house, therefore, I will move the adjournment of the debate.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

Before the debate is adjourned I suggest that the minister give consideration to another suggestion. . I do not want to interfere at all with the undertaking the minister has given, though I have been taking copious notes this afternoon; but I suggest that this proposal is probably one of the most far-reaching concerning agriculture ever to be presented to the house, and it might be well if the minister-

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
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LIB

Walter Edward Foster (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order. The question

before the house is whether the debate should now be adjourned. If the hon. member is speaking to a question of privilege, he may proceed, but at this time he should not make a speech.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

I suggest that since

this question is of such widespread interest and importance, the minister should not only wait until the western. members and others have returned but that during the recess he might consider the advisability of having the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Euler) move his resolutions, and then turn the whole thing over to the agriculture committee, where it can be thoroughly gone into; because I think this program on which we are entering-

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
Permalink
LIB

Walter Edward Foster (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

The motion is not debatable.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
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LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

The Minister of Trade and Commerce has no resolution to move; he has already introduced the bill.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
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CON

Thomas Langton Church

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHURCH:

When will the debate be resumed?

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

After

the recess.

Motion (Mr. Gardiner) agreed to and debate adjourned.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE
Subtopic:   PERCENTAGE DEDUCTION FROM GRAINS MARKETED IN SPRING WHEAT AREA-PROVISION FOR ACREAGE PAYMENT
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NATIONAL DEFENCE

CREATION OF DEFENCE PURCHASING BOARD TO ENTER INTO CONTRACTS FOR MUNITIONS EQUIPMENT, MATERIALS AND SUPPLIES


The house resumed from Wednesday, March 29, consideration in committee of Bill No. 38, to establish a defence purchasing board- Mr. Mackenzie (Vancouver)-Mr. Sanderson iii the chair. On section 7-Maximum net profit.


?

Hon IAN MACKENZIE (Minister of National Defence):

We were on section 7 when we rose the other evening. I gave a figure of 15 per cent in reply to the hon. member for Weyburn with reference to contracts which would come under the five per cent limitation. That figure should be 24-4 per cent.

I desire also to refer to a question asked by the hon. member for Vancouver North; though it really should not enter into this discussion I think I should have the privilege of amplifying the statement I made the other evening in regard to the prices paid by the British air ministry for Bristol engines.

Progress reported.

Topic:   NATIONAL DEFENCE
Subtopic:   CREATION OF DEFENCE PURCHASING BOARD TO ENTER INTO CONTRACTS FOR MUNITIONS EQUIPMENT, MATERIALS AND SUPPLIES
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THE ROYAL ASSENT


A message was delivered by Major A. R. Thompson, Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, as follows: Mr. Speaker, His Honour, the deputy of His Excellency the Governor General, desires the immediate attendance of this honourable house in the chamber of the honourable the Senate. Accordingly, the house went up to the Senate. And having returned, Mr. SPEAKER informed the house that the deputy of His Excellency the Governor General had been pleased to give in His Majesty's name royal assent to the following bills: An act respecting the appointment of auditors for national railways. An act to authorize an agreement between His Majesty the King and the corporation of the city of Ottawa. An act to amend the Loan Companies Act. An act to amend the Trust Companies Act. An act to amend the Technical Education Act An act to amend the Food and Drugs Act. An act respecting Penitentiaries. An aot to amend the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act. An act respecting the Quebec Railway, Light and Power Company. An act for the relief of Edythe Marjorie Burke Atkinson. An act for the relief of Marie Louise Rossetti Di Rosa. An act for the relief of Stefano Guilio Luciano Roncari. Dejence Purchasing Board



An act for the relief of Gertrude Saul Baker. An act for the relief of Mary Frances Todd Lister Cardwell. An act for the relief of Herbert John Butler. An act for the relief of Anna Lasnier Blain. An act for the relief of Annie March Breakey Coburn. An aot for the relief of Mabel Gertrude Marks Lamoureux. An act for the relief of Earl Keith Drennan. An act for the relief of Per Ernst Martinsson. An act respecting the United Church of Canada. An act to incorporate the Trustee Board of The Presbyterian Church in Canada. An act for granting to his majesty certain sums of money for the public service of the financial year ending the 31st March, 1940.


NATIONAL DEFENCE

CREATION OF DEFENCE PURCHASING BOARD TO ENTER INTO CONTRACTS FOR MUNITIONS, EQUIPMENT, MATERIALS AND SUPPLIES


The house resumed consideration, in committee of Bill No. 38, to establish a defence purchasing board-Mr. Mackenzie (Vancouver) -Mr. Sanderson in the chair.


LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

Before royal assent I was referring to a question asked last Wednesday, when we last considered this bill, in connection with Bristol aeroplane engines. While it is scarcely pertinent to the discussion of this particular bill, I should like to amplify the statement I made the other day. I referred to prices paid by the British air ministry to Bristol Aeroplane Company, Limited, for Bristol engines. I have since learned that under the provisions of the agreement between the air ministry and Bristol Aeroplane Company, Limited, the former is precluded from disclosing the prices paid by the air ministry for Bristol engines. I have also been since informed that there is good reason to believe that the relations between the air ministry and the company already mentioned are of a confidential nature in this respect, being virtually that of a qualified partnership, and that it is deemed inadvisable by the air ministry to disclose either the prices paid by them for these engines or other details of the relations at the present time.

In view of the situation and with the fullest recognition of the air ministry's position, I wish to amplify my previous statement to the house. The Department of National Defence purchases Bristol engines at prices quoted by the Bristol Aeroplane Company, Limited, which are " subject to reduction, if any, following consultation with the British air ministry." The department maintains a liaison officer in the British air ministry. Among other duties, he has to seek the greatest possible benefit from the air ministry's advice and assistance

in checking these prices. On April 1, 1939, the liaison officer forwarded the following information to the department:

Air ministiy arrive at price by negotiations based technical cost, investigation overhead charges after making provision for capital clause liability, machine tools, etc. As we include accessories in our demand and air ministry purchase only bare engines from manufacturer we cannot get same price as air ministry. On the whole believed we get reasonable approximate price definitely below foreign price. Air ministry under agreement not to reveal their price but always willing to examine our price and say whether considered fair and reasonable which would give a definite indication that prices approximate those of air ministry.

I can only add that the Department of National Defence does take advantage of and deeply appreciates the cooperation and assistance extended to us by the British air ministry in this and other directions.

While I am on my feet I should like to refer to an article which appeared in the Winnipeg Free Press of April 3, 1939, which cast some doubt upon the value of Bristol engines when operated under Canadian conditions. In this connection I should like to quote the following memorandum which was received from the chief of the air staff:

For the past three winters the Department of National Defence has carried out winter flying tests on Bristol engines, in collaboration with the British air ministry. These tests have been made under all weather conditions, and Canada was chosen because of the severe conditions. Results have been entirely satisfactory.

The question of icing of carbureters is not peculiar to Bristol engines, but is largely a question of installation, and the report of the loss of the Cavalier has naturally resulted in a review of the engine installation of all types of aircraft. It is not anticipated that any difficulties will be met which cannot be overcome.

I thought I owed it to the committee to give this amplified statement.

Topic:   NATIONAL DEFENCE
Subtopic:   CREATION OF DEFENCE PURCHASING BOARD TO ENTER INTO CONTRACTS FOR MUNITIONS, EQUIPMENT, MATERIALS AND SUPPLIES
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CON

Grote Stirling

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STIRLING:

The minister was going to give consideration to the remarks I made with regard to income tax. Is he prepared to modify the wording used? Investigations may be carried on by an accountant employed by the board, and returns by firms or individuals may be displayed before him. The objection that I raised to the wording was that I thought it was a distinct blow at the secrecy of income tax returns, which is always to be preserved.

Topic:   NATIONAL DEFENCE
Subtopic:   CREATION OF DEFENCE PURCHASING BOARD TO ENTER INTO CONTRACTS FOR MUNITIONS, EQUIPMENT, MATERIALS AND SUPPLIES
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April 5, 1939