March 23, 1939

CON

John Ritchie MacNicol

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacNICOL:

I am speaking of the

calendar year, and I am giving the figures supplied by the washing machine industry.

2176 COMMONS

Canada-United States Trade Agreement

In 1938, 16,914 machines were imported. Certainly there must have been a considerable reduction in employment.

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Now, give us our own

export figures, and that will demonstrate my hon. friend's point.

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CON

John Ritchie MacNicol

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacNICOL:

I know they increased.

We would not be able to export at all if we were not able to manufacture for our own market. We would be able to export more if we had the whole of our own market. But I wish to point out that according to the figures supplied by the washing machine industry, 309 fewer men were engaged in the industry in Canada in 1936 than in 1935.

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LIB

William Ross Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Brantford City):

It has been suggested by the hon. member for Souris, and to some extent by the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario (Mr. Furniss) that washing machines were selling in Canada at twice the price at which they were selling in the United States. The hon. member for Kootenay East (Mr. Stevens) suggested that they were being dumped into Canada. Now, if they are being dumped into Canada one would think that they were being sold in this country at a price lower than that at which they were selling in the United States. The two views conflict. Both conditions can hardly prevail.

It has been suggested that there is such a duty on washing machines that they are being sold at an excessive price in Canada. The hon. member for Kootenay East quoted figures which indicated that companies in the United States had lost money. I believe if that point were followed out he would find that, generally speaking, the washing machine companies in Canada also lost money last year. There might be an exception here and there, but, generally speaking, the washing machine industry last year was not productive of profit. There are a considerable number of companies in Canada making washing machines, so that there is a good deal of competition in our own country. There is competition among the companies themselves, and that naturally keeps the price down. No company in Canada has what one might call a monopoly.

It has been suggested by several hon. members that this matter should be referred to the tariff board. My opinion is that at the present time we must give industry confidence. We should let them know that they are going to be allowed to carry on their business, without too much interference from governments or other authorities. I would say that this great industry is not one which should be scrutinized by any board. It should be

given an opportunity to conduct its business free, from interference. If that is done I am satisfied that the people will get their washing machines at a fair price.

It has been said that we want to get washing machines as cheaply as possible, and I agree with that; the women on the farms and the mothers and housewives in our cities should get these machines as cheaply as possible. But if we are going to destroy this industry, if it is put out of business and all these machines are to be brought in from a foreign country, I ask where the husbands of the housewives are going to get the money with which to buy them? I submit that we must consider the whole question of industry. Are we going to encourage industry in this country or are we going to destroy industry and create more unemployment? Our one thought should be to be fair to all, to give our housewives whether living in the city or on the farm, washing machines at a fair price; 'but at the same time we should protect this industry and keep our working men at work.

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CON

Karl Kenneth Homuth

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. IIOMUTH:

I want to congratulate my hon. friend (Mr. Macdonald), who is a neighbour of mine, upon his protectionist speech. Every time an item in this trade treaty is discussed and hon. members refer to the price they have to pay, they refer to the retail price. Member after member has risen to condemn industry. Our manufacturers have 'been called profiteers and hon. members complain of the high prices they have to pay for commodities. But it is not industry that is making the money out of these things. Take washing machines, for instance. If you follow the price of a washing machine from the factory until it reaches the consumer you will find that thirty, thirty-five, forty and forty-five per cent has been added to the price received by the manufacturer. Surely it would be better to spend our time in trying to work out some method of cutting down the cost of distribution in this country than to criticize industry day after day as it has been criticized. I agree with the hon. member for Brantford, when he says that industry should have some assurance that it will not be continually interfered with. Industry certainly has no such assurance now.

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SC

Joseph Needham

Social Credit

Mr. NEEDHAM:

The minister said that exports had increased five times and that there had been a tremendous increase in the imports. Would all these exports be of Canadian manufacture, or would some be imported and then exported?

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Our exports to the various countries of the empire are required to meet

Canada-United Slates Trade Agreement

the British content regulations of the country to which they go. The imported and reexported article must comply with the British content regulations of Great Britain, Australia or New Zealand, as the case may be. In the case of this particular article, our exports comprised at least fifty per cent British content.

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Item agreed to. Customs tariff-415e. Clothes wringers, domestic, and complete parts of metal thereof: 25 per cent. Item agreed to. Customs tariff-415d. Sewing machines, with or without motive power incorporated therein; complete parts of sewing machines: 15 per cent. Item agreed to. Customs tariff-422a, ex 439b and ex 427a. Concrete road-paving machines, self-propelling, end loading type, with a capacity of 21 cubic feet of wet concrete or more; concrete and asphalt road finishing machines; form graders; sub-graders; combination excavating and transporting scraper units; concrete mixers, transit type; dump wagons or trailors on crawler-tracks, not self-propelled; back-filling machines and equipment, mounted on self-propelling wheels or crawling traction, semi- or full-revolving boom and scraper type; steam or air driven pile hammers or extractors; well-points; truck turntables; all the foregoing of a class or kind not made in Canada, and complete parts thereof: 10 per cent.


CON

Albert A. Brown

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BROWN:

What is the rate of duty on these items entering the United States?

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

The hon. member is referring to road building machinery?

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CON

Albert A. Brown

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BROWN:

Yes. Could the minister also give the Canadian imports?

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

The United States duty on most of this item is 274 per cent. The imports to Canada last year were valued at $366,000. [DOT]

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CON

Albert A. Brown

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BROWN:

What would be the value of machinery of this type, otherwise provided for, produced in Canada? I mean all other kinds that are made in Canada.

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

There is no production of this item in Canada.

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CON

Albert A. Brown

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BROWN:

I know that. But there are items of this type which are made in Canada.

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

There is no specific item which covers the same range of articles produced in Canada as is covered by this item. They would be distributed over possibly half a dozen different items in our tariff schedule. I regret I have not the precise information covering the Canadian production.

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CON

Albert A. Brown

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BROWN:

Would it be safe to assume that the tariff duty is higher on the class of goods which are made in Canada?

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Oh, yes.

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Item agreed to. Customs tariff-424a. Hand fire extinguishers, and sprinkler heads for automatic sprinkler systems for fire protection: 30 per cent. Item agreed to. Customs tariff-ex 425. Lawn mowers designed for use with motive power, whether or not containing the power unit: 15 per cent. Item agreed to. Customs tariff-427. All machinery composed wholly or in part of iron or steel, n.o.p., and complete parts thereof: 25 per cent.


CON

Joseph Henry Harris

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HARRIS:

Could the minister give us the imports and exports of items 427 and 427a, which I think go together?

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March 23, 1939