March 21, 1939

LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

They are carrying on two activities, one having to do with soil drifting and the other with weed control. Some of the work that has been developed in connection with soil control is to leave a sort of dressing of stubble and other material on the top, but it is generally recognized in the west that what holds the soil best, in the Regina district particularly, is rain, and if it does not rain, the soil blows in spite of everything one can do.

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

What

rental is given the farmers from whom these stations are acquired?

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

I think the best answer to that question is to read a summary of the contract that is entered into with those who operate:

1. A rental of $5 an acre is paid where the plots do not exceed one-quarter acre each. Usually this plot area does not exceed one acre. On this class of work the supervisor puts in all the crop and harvests it.

2. Where the plots are smaller than %o acre each, the operator receives $25 an acre compensation for the loss of the crop on such small areas.

3. A rental of $3 an acre is paid where the blocks of land do not exceed three acres. The total area of such stations is frequently from twelve to fourteen acres. The operator handles all of this crop.

4. A rental of $1 an acre is paid for the district experiment substations in the P.F.R.A. area in the prairie provinces. Large scale work is undertaken with strip farming, cover crops and surface tillage in connection with soil drifting control.

On some of these district experiment substations small plot experiments are also conducted.

5. Special contracts have been made in connection with special work such as with cranberries, raspberries, hops and irrigation. None of these exceed $150 each. For certain operators along the line of the Hudson Bay railway an annual payment of $5 per acre is made while some of these operators receive no payment whatever.

For pasture experiments no rental is paid but the fertilizer is supplied free.

6. Total maximum payments to any operator in eastern Canada is confined to less than $100.

In western Canada the limit is confined to below $200 for illustration station operators, while for operators of district experimental sub-stations the limit varies, being $1 an acre up to one section of land, plus payments for small experimental plots at the rates set for illustration station compensation. The upper limit, therefore, would not exceed $800 and usually is considerably less.

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

Who is

paid for putting the crop in; is it the farmer from whom the farm is rented? What is paid for the work done?

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Nothing is paid to the farmer for his work. A rental is paid for the land on which the operation is carried on, but the farmer does all the work and gets the proceeds from the crop.

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CON
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Only where it is seed investigation work and where it is thought necessary to supply the seed because the test is of the seed.

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SC

William Hayhurst

Social Credit

Mr. HAYHTJRST:

Did I understand the

minister correctly to say that there are eleven illustration stations in Alberta?

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

I think that is correct, eleven of the one type and fifteen of the other.

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SC
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Iron Springs, Chedder-ville, Rocky Mountain House railway station Dickson. Leslieville, Stettler, Sangudo, Chau-vin, St. Paul, High Prairie, Fairview.

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CON

Thomas Langton Church

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHURCH:

This particular item has grown by leaps and bounds since I have been in the house. Since the present minister has had control, there seems to be no thought of economy in the department. Look at this item 14, details of which are on page 57 of the estimates. I do not know where this standing army is going to end. And when one considers that the provinces have concurrent jurisdiction, why should the dominion establish a great big department like this?

2144 COMMONS

Supply-Agriculture-Experimental Farms

Look at some of these items-it puts me in mind of the army and navy added together -Chief supervisor of illustration stations, same as last year; senior agricultural scientist, forestry engineer, eleven experimental farm superintendents, all kinds of things; forestry engineer, animal nutritionist and genetecist, fourteen more experimental farm superintendents, five senior assistant agricultural scientists, two assistant superintendents, one assistant chief supervisor, another forestry engineer, an assistant agricultural scientist- there is no deputy assistant-two tobacco specialists, we have plenty of them in the lobbies all day long; an animal nutritionist and physiologist at $2,520, twenty-one more farm assistants of all kinds and grades, supervisors, irrigation specialist-they are all specialists-eighteen farm foremen amounting to $35,000 this year, $28,860 last year, an increase of $7,000, and no doubt more votes will be obtained this year. Then clerks, grade 4, forest assistants, a graduate assistant-one more graduate, no doubt of the agricultural college, eleven head herdsmen, nine of these at $1,800, one at only $1,785, a $15 deduction. Twelve head poultrymen, head gardeners, head beekeepers, head plotmen, head gardeners, grade 3, a stenographer, five poultrymen, a greenhouseman, more clerks, beekeepers, stenographers, herdsmen, gardeners, a part time assistant to dominion animal husbandman, one only caretaker, no janitors, and temporary assistance amounting to $117,000. Then, on the next page printing and stationery, rents, supplies and materials, et cetera, and travelling expenses, make a total of $1,406,427.

Where is the money to come from to pay all this? It has to come out of the income tax and the sales tax collected from the industrial provinces. Talk about economy! I commend this to the publisher of the Globe and Mail, the friend of my friend the minister, to find out what economy there is in this. Ballots might well be sent to all the farmers in this country to find out what they think of this department which has grown by leaps and bounds. These estimates should be dealt with on the municipal system, and we could sit - here and divide this million and a half dollars in half; let them get on this year with $750,000 to ran this branch of the army; that would be plenty for this department. With that kind of extravagance in this department, what is it going to amount to when they all -add it up and where is the money to come from? In view of these treaties I should think we would need fewer officials in the Department of Agriculture owing to the changes which have been made in the agreements to which I have referred.

It is eleven o'clock; I move that the committee rise and report progress.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

It is still one minute to eleven. Before the hon. member takes his

seat-

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CON
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

-I should like to say that there are just the same number of employees in this branch of the department that there were last year.

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CON
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

The hon. member moved a motion.

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CON

Thomas Langton Church

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHURCH:

I have the floor. Both of us cannot talk at the same time.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

There are just the same number as last year.

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LIB

Frederick George Sanderson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

It is eleven o'clock.

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March 21, 1939