March 20, 1939

LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

I thank the minister for his explanation; I have followed what took place in the committee on Friday, although unfortunately I had to be absent. The statement to which I refer is a summary of all the figures in concise form, prepared by the bureau of statistics. I ask leave of the committee to put it on the record without reading it.

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CCF

Angus MacInnis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. MacINNIS:

If a summary of this kind is to be put on the record I think it should be put on by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Dunning) so that we may know that it is in

accord with the agreement. I have no objection to the summary; I think it would be useful, but it should be put on by the person best qualified to do so.

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

It is only a question of what best meets the convenience of the committee. Obviously if a summary !be put on the record to-day and the discussion on some of these items goes on to another, day, hon. members who desire information statistical in relation to an article under discussion towards the end of the week will be asking me where to find it in Hansard. That is why I have given the specific information with respect to each item as it was discussed.

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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

Do I understand I have permission?

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LIB

Frederick George Sanderson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Only with the unanimous consent of the committee. Has the hon. member unanimous consent?

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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

No.

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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

Then I understand I can read it?

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LIB

Frederick George Sanderson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Certainly.

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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

Dominion Bureau of Statistics. External trade branch. Canada's imports and exports of fruit and vegetables. Calendar years 1932 to 1938:

Fresh fruit imports

1932 $12,145,722

1933 10,379,892

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LIB

Frederick George Sanderson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

I am of the opinion that the figures that the hon. member is reading have nothing to do with the item under discussion, which is item No. 101, oranges.

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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

May I make a submission in regard to your ruling, Mr. Chairman? It is this: that any one item may have a direct bearing on the industry, and with deference I submit that when discussing oranges I have the right to discuss apples, because apples are competitive-

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LIB

Frederick George Sanderson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Order. I have given my ruling and I would ask the hon. member to abide by it.

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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

I ask a moment to explain. I do not want to have to appeal from your ruling, but I submit I am entitled to put this on the record. You listened to the hon. member who preceded me discuss apples and why this practice in regard to oranges is detrimental to the apple growers. It has a direct bearing. If there is any general item called to my attention under which I can more correctly discuss this general aspect, I shall be pleased to do it then.

Canada-United. States Trade Agreement

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Perhaps I may suggest a means by which the hon. member may make his statement and still be in order. In committee of the whole house on the bill, or at any time when the schedule itself as a whole is being submitted to the house, general statements will be in order. Personally I think the chairman's ruling is correct; when we are talking about oranges, it is oranges. We dealt with apples the other day. If we were to mix the whole matter up again the discussion would be endless. There is an opportunity for statements of the kind which the hon. member wishes to make.

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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

I thank the minister for the suggestion. I will seek an opportunity at the right time.

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

I come from a part of the country in which we grow neither apples nor oranges. I wish to support the hon. member for Moose Jaw (Mr. Ross) in the analysis of this item which he made the other evening. I can see no justification for taxing a fruit which some people say is in competition with certain other fruits grown in this country, but which competition I find it difficult to understand, inasmuch as the two kinds of fruit serve entirely different purposes. For numerous children it is difficult to-dajr to get fresh fruit, particularly oranges, and it is altogether improper that we should place a barrier against a fruit which we cannot under any circumstances grow in Canada. I have always been under the impression that a tariff is for one of two purposes, either for revenue or for protection. If this tariff were for revenue purposes, it would be in effect all the year round. I can only conclude that since it is imposed for part of the year only, it is a sort of protective tariff.

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Entirely wrong.

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

The minister says I am entirely wrong. Well, he will have an opportunity to correct me. At any rate I submit that oranges constitute a valuable part of the daily diet, particularly for very young people. In our part of the country our children find it exceedingly difficult to get oranges at any time, and the figures produced the other evening by the hon. member for Moose Jaw did, in my opinion, prove conclusively that there is a relation between the duty and the higher price during the season when the duty is charged. I should like to see the length of time during which the duty is imposed reduced to the minimum, even down to a single day. I support the argument of the hon. member for Moose Jaw.

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LIB

Ralph Maybank

Liberal

Mr. MAYBANK:

I support the remarks of the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Cold well) and similar statements made by the hon. member for Moose Jaw (Mr. Ross). Ir. my opinion, the sooner we take the tariff completely off commodities such as oranges the better, and for the very good reason that, according to practically all health authorities now, oranges are virtually a necessity. The consumption of oranges and orange juice appears to be a necessity in the raising of children. The hon. member for Durham (Mr. Rickard) has remarked that oranges are no better than apples. That may be so. I have noticed that most of the medical men seem to favour this reduction of duty. Perhaps they bear in mind the apple a day that keeps the doctor away, and that is why they are anxious to support the item as it stands. The hon. member for Durham has that much support. I suggest to the Minister of Finance that when he is bringing down his budget he go a step further and wipe out entirely the duty on oranges. A counter-suggestion is made by someone in this corner. It might appeal to the hon. member for Durham. That suggestion is that the duty on oranges be raised very high, making them practically prohibitive. Then the supply of apples will not be sufficient for the needs of people and we can force them to use turnips and thereafter put a tariff on turnips.

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LIB

Arthur Graeme Slaght

Liberal

Mr. SLAGHT:

I wish to support the

position taken by the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar, and the hon. member who has just resumed his seat (Mr. Maybank). In the district of Parry Sound, which I represent, we have in relation to the adult population, as our school statistics show, 'perhaps the greatest population of children of any district in Canada.

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March 20, 1939