June 6, 1938


The house resumed from Friday, June 3, consideration in committee of Bill No. 138, to amend the Indian Act-Mr. Crerar-Mr. Sanderson in the chair. On section 1-Leases and licences to prospect for minerals.


LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Hon. T. A. CRERAR (Minister of Mines and Resources):

When the bill was before the committee the other day, two amendments were suggested to clause 1. As I recall, the leader of the opposition (Mr. Bennett) suggested that after the words "Superintendent General" in the second line there should be something to indicate that the section related to Indian reserves. In the opinion of the law officers of the crown there is no objection, although their view is that it is not necessary, since the Indian Act relates only to Indian administration. But I suggest an amendment to subsection 2, which will be moved by my colleague the Minister of Public Works:

That section 1 of the bill be amended by adding after the words "Superintendent General" in line 2 the words "in respect of any reserve."

Criticism was made also of the last lines in subsection 2, which read:

... to issue leases upon such terms as may be considered proper in the interests of the Indians and of any lessee or licencee.

I explained at the time the purpose of the last four words. But in order to make it clear that it does not apply to any who may be getting mineral leases I suggest a further amendment to that section:

That the words "and of any lessee and licencee" in line 4 be struck out and the following substituted therefor: "and of any

other lessee or licencee of surface rights."

This will make clearer the purpose of the inclusion of those words.

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
LIB

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. CARDIN:

I so move.

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

Would it not be better to say "Indian reserves"? There are a number of

other reserves throughout the country. In the act being repealed the words "Indian reserves" are used.

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

"In respect of any reserve"?

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

It is not proposed to issue leases on any reserves, but only on Indian reserves. Why not call them Indian reserves?

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

The section does not deal with anything but Indian reserves, but there is no objection to the inclusion of the word suggested by the hon. member.

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
CON

Grote Stirling

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STIRLING:

The clause will now end with the words "in the interests of the Indians and of any other lessee or licencee of surface rights"?

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

Yes.

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
CON

Grote Stirling

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STIRLING:

What lessee of surface rights could there be other than the lessee referred to here?

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

There might be a situation under which the surface rights to pulpwood or grazing or hay or something else had already been disposed of. Then subsequently you dispose of another kind of right, the right to prospect or mine. This merely provides that the leases may be issued upon such terms as may be considered proper in the interests of the Indians and of any other lessee or licencee.

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

I submit that the word "other" is confusing. "Other" suggests something else from which you are making a distinction. but there is nothing else. The superintendent general is given power to issue leases in connection with minerals, and in my opinion the language, to make the meaning clear, should be "and of any existing lessee or licencee." That is the idea. If a man has the right to take pulpwood or firewood the superintendent general is given the power to make an arrangement that will be in the interests of the Indians, and of these prior holders. That is what it is intended to convey; but when you say "and of any other lessee or licencee" that meaning is not very clear. I submit that the words I have suggested, "and of any existing lessee or licencee," would cover the meaning which the bill intends to convey. As it stands it is rather obscure. "Other" implies two things (a) and (b). We have (b) but we have not (a). What is it to which "other" refers? It does not seem to be very clear. The minister wishes to take power to grant such licences as shall be fair to the Indians and to any existing lessee or licencee. That is what the section means.

Indian Act

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

That is the purpose of

it. We explained that purpose to the law officers of the Department of Justice and this is the amendment that has been proposed. I think it is quite clear as it stands. There might be a difference of opinion as to whether the word "existing" should replace the word "other," but I submit the purpose is manifest.

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

It is all right with me, but

I submit that it is not clear.

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink

Amendment agreed to.


IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

Did the minister agree to

put in the word "Indian"-"Indian reserve"?

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

Yes. .

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

Will the chairman be good

enough to make a note of that?

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
LIB

Frederick George Sanderson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

"In respect of any

Indian reserve"; it has been noted.

Section as amended agreed to.

On section 2-Advances for assistance to Indians.

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

The hon. member for

Comox-Alberni the other day suggested the advisability of tabling a report on the transactions carried on under the operation of this revolving fund, and I have an amendment which I will ask the Minister of Public Works to move.

Topic:   INDIAN ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   PROVISIONS RESPECTING LEASES OF MINERALIZED
Sub-subtopic:   AREAS AND ADVANCES TO ASSIST AGRICULTURE AND OTHER PURSUITS
Permalink

June 6, 1938