May 16, 1938

LIB

Robert John Deachman

Liberal

Mr. DEACHMAN:

I have no objection whatever to the ruling of the Chair, and I would hesitate to take any exception to a ruling, but I do suggest that we have been discussing this question for nearly three-quarters of an hour; there was no protest when it started, and yet when I am stating my case, which is a refutation of the argument made by those who are opposing me from the Conservative side, then we have these rules of order raised.

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Oh, no. I think the hon. member has stated his case pretty completely. I had no intention at all of raising a point of order against him. I was not in the other night when the Chairman made his ruling, but it seems to me a common sense ruling. My hon. friend has just stated his point admirably, and I thought that was an appropriate place to try to get the committee back on the rails. However, it is entirely in your hands, Mr. Chairman.

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

While I do not agree with the hon. member for Huron North (Mr. Deachman), yet on the point of order, Mr. Chairman-

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

The point of order is decided.

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

The Minister of Finance was speaking to it.

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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

No, I was simply suggesting that the ruling should be enforced.

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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

As your ruling, Mr. Chairman, was broad, and as the subject matter is very broad, may I point out with regard to trade with the United Kingdom that one should consider not only production over there. That would be a great mistake and would show very deep ignorance, because it is well known that with regard to butter, for instance, speaking in a wide sense, in England the sales of butter exceed greatly the production of butter, and the same with a great many other commodities.

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LIB

Frederick George Sanderson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Order. The hon. member is out of order. We are discussing item 7, and if the hon. member will turn to page 55 of the details of the estimates he will find that the item is made up entirely of salaries. I would ask the hon. member to confine his remarks to item 7.

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LIB

Robert John Deachman

Liberal

Mr. DEACHMAN:

Mr. Chairman, I desire to deal again with the point brought up a moment ago with regard to the importation of vegetable 'oils. The hon. member for Haldi-mand (Mr. Senn) suggested that the effect of the importation of vegetable oils would be

the addition of, I think it was, approximately 35 cents a hundred, to the price of hogs in the Dominion of Canada. He quoted from a document which he said was prepared by Canada Packers, and I suppose I may be permitted now to quote from the same document in respect to this important item:

A careful calculation indicates that the duty proposed would involve an increase in the cost of household necessities not less than $15,000,000 per year. This is equivalent to $7 per family. And the weight of it would fall principally on labour and farm families, which are the largest consumers of bread and soap.

I submit that when we consider the investigation of vegetable oils we ought to consider very carefully the reduction in the purchasing power of the Canadian people which would result from the addition of a total bill of $15,000,000 to what labour, the farmer, and the consumers of Canada generally would have to pay for two ordinary household necessities.

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

May I ask the minister what the duties of the senior agricultural economists will be?

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

The senior agricultural economist is Mr. Booth, who was appointed in 1929 for the purpose of making investigations into the economic side of agriculture. It is not his duty, as I pointed out on three or four occasions last Thursday afternoon, to make investigations into the relationship of the tariff to the exportation of goods from Canada or the importation of goods into Canada. That is the duty of the tariff board. His duty is to make investigations in, say, Saskatchewan as to the costs of producing certain commodities or as to the cost of operating farms under certain circumstances, or as to whether one tyipe of farming would be beneficial as against another type, and all subjects of that kind having to do either with the marketing or with the production of farm commodities.

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

Have these inquiries

been begun? Are they being conducted at the present time?

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Quite a number of them have been carried on over a period of years. There have been investigations into the marketing of fruit and vegetables, such as a study of the marketing of fruit and vegetables in the city of Toronto, an investigation of the variations in price received for apples exported from Nova Scotia, an investigation of distribution costs of fruits and vegetables distributed by wholesalers and jobbers, wholesale fruit and vegetable distribution costs. There is a whole page of them.

Supply-Agriculture-Economics

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

The minister mentioned western Canada. What work is being done in this regard in the prairie provinces?

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Land utilization surveys, 1937, and an economic land utilization classification in Saskatchewan.

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

With regard to the surveys for land utilization, the members of that staff are, I believe, highly qualified soil chemists. Is this the place to ask for information regarding the rates of salary paid to these men? I understood the minister to tell me last year that they were classified as graduate-labourers.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

The proper place to discuss that would be under experimental farms, on the next page.

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

The minister spoke of land utilization. I thought this might get the discussion back to the item, as a matter of fact.

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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

Under this item I see: two senior agricultural economists, two agricultural economists, two senior assistant agricultural economists, two assistant agricultural economists, and one junior agricultural economist. I suggest that the minister should be very careful about economists, and should have business men of his own type in the first place; even if they are economists on the side I would have no objection to it. But in certain departments we have too many doctors, and I have suggested already that we should see them in full regalia: we have too many doctors, we have a pest of doctors, and at times they are fake doctors.

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CON

May 16, 1938