May 6, 1938

LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

No, no. The sales tax must have been included.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. WARD:

I am very glad the minister has raised that point, because in my computation I took the price paid for the goods, the original cost plus the duty; I added to that the excise tax; I added the sales tax; then I added the profit taken between the custom house and the consumer, and it amounted to about 65 per cent of the original cost.

After all, the duty does not end at the boundary; it just nicely begins there. That is the point which I believe we have been missing, quite innocently, but the impost goes on until it reaches the consumer. If I am in business and I invest SI,000 in goods in the United States and I have to invest S200 more when they reach the boundary, I am going to add my profit to the $1,200 and not to the $1,000 only. So the impost continues, as I have said, until it reaches the consumer; we must get that point clear in our minds. That is why the country is going down as it is, while our cities build up. I am astonished that our leading statesmen are not more alarmed at what is happening in this regard. One cannot go around the country and see barn doors falling off, gates hanging on one hinge, buildings which have not been painted for the last fifteen years, and half the farm, if it is occupied at all, seeded down to grass because the farmer cannot afford to operate it, without realizing that we cannot have such conditions and maintain a healthy country society. Perhaps by reason of the bonus system, we have built up a false social structure in our large industrial centres. What I should like to see is the creation of conditions in this country which would make it so attractive to our young people that they would want to live on farms. We must find some means of attracting our people to the farms in greater numbers.

I might remark here that until recently we in the west regarded ourselves as being in the heart of a great continent, but within the last few years we have been brought a little closer to tide-water through the port of Churchill. Very little, however, has been done to encourage trade through that port. I am sorry the Minister of Mines and Resources (Mr. Crerar), who represents that constituency, is not in the house, because I should like to suggest to him that the establishment of a bonded warehouse at Churchill would do a great deal to encourage trade

through that port. Many heavy commodities like binder twine, plate glass, barbed wire, rolling mill products and china, of which we import a great deal, could come in through that port at a great saving to the west. It is a thousand miles closer than Montreal to the centre of consumption in the west, and I believe it could be used by the producers of those commodities in countries like Holland, Belgium, France and Great Britain, which export them to Canada. The farmer needs his binder twine in April and May, in any event not later than June and July, and not in August and September, when ships come into Churchill. The hardware man wants his glass in March and April, not in the fall. There are many commodities which could be brought into Churchill if we had a bonded warehouse there. I think in that way we could do something to encourage the importation of goods required in the west.

I have under my hand a statement of the freight rates actually paid at the present time, showing the savings that could be effected if we could use Churchill to a greater extent than we are doing to-day. For example, the freight on a carload of poultry from Dauphin, which is a central point in Manitoba, to Churchill, would cost $262. That same carload shipped to Montreal would cost $457 at present freight rates. To ship a carload of eggs from Dauphin to Montreal costs $394; it would cost $264 if routed via Churchill. Remember that Churchill is the same distance from the markets of Europe as is Montreal. I could mention many other lommodities. Take cattle; the freight rate on a carload from Dauphin to Montreal is $191, whereas the rate to Churchill is $102, or a saving of $89. That is a considerable amount when one does not get very much for the cattle anyway. I sincerely hope the government will give serious consideration to the suggestion to establish a bonded warehouse in Churchill.

In the course of this debate reference was made to the help given to the west by eastern Canada. I want to assure eastern members- although, thank God, I do not live in the dried-out area-that there is no one more grateful than I have been for the very generous assistance given to the west by the people of eastern Canada, in contributing, as they did, more than a hundred carloads of fruit and vegetables last year to the dried-out area, and we are also grateful to parliament for the money voted to assist the people in those localities. But I took the trouble the other day to get from the statistical branch the value of agricultural production of the three prairie provinces in the

Farm Implements Committee Report

last twenty years, and I received these staggering figures. We produced agricultural products in the three prairie provinces to the value of $70,115,000,000. We may very properly ask, What has become of that seventy billions? You will find, if you go around Montreal, Toronto, Hamilton, Brantford and all the other industrial centres of eastern Canada, a great deal of it. It is very difficult for us to calculate just how much of that seventy billions of dollars has gone to the upbuilding of Toronto. I believe that if it had not been for the west Toronto would be a little straggling city of not more than two hundred to two hundred and fifty thousand, and Hamilton would be no more than a good sized town, because seventy-five per cent of the products of these cities have gone west of the great lakes.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Where are these members from Hamilton?

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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SC

William Hayhurst

Social Credit

Mr. HAYHURST:

There would be no Brampton at all 1

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. WARD:

I do not know. The greenhouses might still be there. However, I think we must realize that the farmer has not had a square deal so far as fiscal matters are concerned. No less a person than the right hon. leader of the opposition (Mr. Bennett), speaking in Saskatoon on June 20, 1930, made this statement:

There is only one way we can get the moneys of England for Canadian wheat, rather than Russia and the Argentine and how is that? By providing our wheat cheaper than the others.^ Is that not so? And how are we going to do it? This is what we are promising at any rate to do.

Well, we did have cheaper wheat during the term of office of the right hon. gentleman. We had the cheapest wheat that this country and the world had known in several hundreds of years.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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LIB

Walter Edward Foster (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

I am sorry to have to inform the hon. member that he has exceeded his time.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. WARD:

I should like to continue for just a few moments.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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LIB

Walter Edward Foster (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

With the unanimous consent of the house.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. WARD:

I believe the right hon. gentleman was right. If we have to produce our wheat as cheap as, or as he stated, cheaper than other countries-and I think there is no one in the house in a better position to know than the right hon. gentleman; we know he never was wrong-how in the name of com-

mon sense are we going to do it while buying in a market where the values of the articles which go into production are enhanced forty, fifty and sixty per cent by reason of tariffs? It is not possible. I hope, before the budget comes down, the finance minister will be able to see his way clear to remove all duties from farm implements. That may not have so great an effect as we expect; it may not reduce the price so much as we would like, but I am sure it will be something. I hope he will -wipe out the duties on farm implements, and also on cream separators. I hope he will go a long, long way-as far as he has ever gone before-in reduction of tariffs. I should like to see him make the same strides in reducing duties that he did in 1930. It was a great gesture, if nothing else, to the farmers of this country. I hope before the budget comes down, he will see his way clear to give serious consideration to this matter. He is an ex-farmer himself.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

I object to the "ex"; I still pay the bills on the farm.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. WARD:

I am pleased to know that the minister is still directly engaged in agriculture; that makes it all the better, and I am much more hopeful now that we shall get something substantial in the coming budget.

On motion of Mr. Motherwell the debate was adjourned.

At six o'clock the house took recess.

After Recess

The house resumed at eight o'clock.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY OF CANADA, LTD.
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PRIVATE BILLS

NIAGARA FALLS OBSERVATION BRIDGE COMPANY


The house resumed from Tuesday, May 3, consideration in committee of Bill No. 15, to incorporate the Niagara Falls Observation Bridge Company-Mr. Damude Mr. Sanderson in the chair. Section 9 agreed to. On section 10-Expropriation.


CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

There is only one comment that might be made on this section. It states:

The company may expropriate and take any lands-

I think it should say " in Canada," to make it clear, because this bridge we are talking about is a bridge that crosses the whole stream. Here we are conferring powers upon

Niagara Falls Bridge

the company as a whole, whereas our power clearly is limited to Canada. The same thing applies to other sections as well, but I do not propose to devote further time to this bill. I have served the purpose that I had in mind; I have secured the information that I desired and it has been placed upon Hansard as indicating my view. The action that was taken, by deleting the words at the end of section 8, makes clear, in part at least,, what I think should be done. Certainly I do think it will be found necessary to reconsider the whole situation with respect to these matters, because it must be clearly apparent to every thoughtful man that we cannot impose tolls in the United States, on their part of the bridge. Our railway commission cannot do that; that must be reasonably clear. It must be equally clear that we cannot confer any powers of expropriation upon a company to exercise such powers of eminent domain in another country.

As I say, I am not going to do more than merely indicate these views, without taking time to press them.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   NIAGARA FALLS OBSERVATION BRIDGE COMPANY
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Section agreed to. On section 11-Tolls.


CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I must put myself on record at once in connection with this section. Just imagine, sir, this parliament being asked to say:

Subject to the provisions of the Railway Act the company may charge tolls for the use of the said bridge, approaches and facilities, and may regulate the tolls to be charged.

The mere statement of it in itself carries a refutation. Our railway commission cannot regulate the tolls for the use of that bridge from the middle of the stream into the United States or from the United States to the middle of the stream, as it can for that part of the bridge which is in Canada. We have no power to regulate tolls in another country, and as the section reads that is what it means.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   NIAGARA FALLS OBSERVATION BRIDGE COMPANY
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LIB

Frederick George Sanderson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Shall section 11 carry?

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   NIAGARA FALLS OBSERVATION BRIDGE COMPANY
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

On division.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   NIAGARA FALLS OBSERVATION BRIDGE COMPANY
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Section agreed to, on division. Section 12 agreed to. On section 13-May receive grants.


May 6, 1938