April 25, 1938

LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

The leverage was that I

was not prepared to negotiate on the new work unless I could get a sale for my own equipment. The sale was put through at the highest prices for scrap material that have prevailed in this country for many a decade. A great deal of the material was sold as scrap because in effect it was scrap. I believe the prices received were good prices for the assets of which we had to dispose. Let me give an indication of what we might have expected had we tried to sell this equipment piecemeal. I might mention that there were some pieces of equipment belonging to the Montreal harbour commission that had not been used for a number of years. Some of these pieces were in a workable condition, but others were no better than scrap. Some months before we started these negotiations we sent a letter to contractors and dealers in Canada whom we thought might be interested and we received an offer of S500 for six scows. That was the only offer received in connection with the equipment which subsequently brought 82,250.000 at the sale. At the sale we received from the General Dredging Contractors Limited $2,000 each for three scows and $3,000 each for the other three. If anyone suggests

2248 COMMONS

Supply-Transport-St. Lawrence Dredging

that we could have done better by advertising this equipment unit by unit, I refer to him the experience we had in trying to sell the Montreal harbour equipment. I suggest this was a fair indication that such a disposal was not possible.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

What was the appraised

valuation of the whole property?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

The Canadian Appraisal

Company Limited appraised the value of the property as of May 5, 1937, at $2,249,931.97. That amount should be reduced by 840,000, the value of one derrick scow at Montreal which was withdrawn.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

What was the basis of

the valuation, cost less depreciation?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Yes. If the unit was in

effect scrap, it was valued at the going value of scrap which at that time was the highest in many years. The sale price was SI .704,544, which is seventy-nine per cent of the appraised value.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
SC

John Charles Landeryou

Social Credit

Mr. LANDERYOU:

What was the original cost?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

This goes back to the turn

of the century, but I can give the cost if the hon. member is interested. Dredge No. 3 was constructed in 1900 at a cost of $94,000; dredge No. 4 was constructed in 1900 at a cost of $94,000, and dredge No. 5 was constructed in 1927 at a cost of 8388,000.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
SC

René-Antoine Pelletier

Social Credit

Mr. PELLETIER:

I do not know that it

is necessary to give that information as it was given in a return brought down.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

All the details were contained in a return.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
SC

René-Antoine Pelletier

Social Credit

Mr. PELLETIER:

The minister said that the reason why the department decided in 1929 to do this work by contract was to save time and to expedite the dredging of the St. Lawrence river; but I would point out to him that I have information from his own office to the effect that during that particular time when dredging was being done by contract, his own fleet was lying idle in the Sorel shipyards. The minister has developed a picture of the Sorel shipyards in an effort to show that the only thing that could be done in that shipyard was repair work. I submit that is not the case. The Sorel shipyard was equipped to do all kinds of work, to construct all types of vessels and even to build marine boilers. To say that the Sorel shipyard was only equipped to repair vessels is to give a wrong impression of the actual value of that shipyard.

We then come to the valuation of the dredging fleet which was sold to General

Dredging Contractors Limited. The minister appeal's to be glad that he was able to realize such a price. He figures it was a good sale, but if he will go back and find the true valuation of these dredges I think he will realize that this equipment was practically given away. The minister refers to certain steel dump scows. I realize that if he tried to sell them as useful vessels he would not have been able to get very much. Everyone knows that there is a dredging monopoly in this country enjoyed by the people to whom he has referred. No one else was in a position to buy any of this equipment which was capable of giving any service. Let me point this out to the minister. Is he sure that his department always gives the auditor general correct figures?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Mr. Chairman, I ask that that be withdrawn.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Oh no. I have heard the minister say worse than that about honest men.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

The hon. member asked me if my department gives correct figures to the auditor general.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
SC

René-Antoine Pelletier

Social Credit

Mr. PELLETIER:

Quite so, and I repeat

the question.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

That is a proper question.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

I submit it is not a proper question.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

What is the matter with it?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

No department gives

figures to the auditor general. The auditor general has access to the books and records of all departments, but there is no question of giving anything to the auditor general.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
SC

René-Antoine Pelletier

Social Credit

Mr. PELLETIER:

I submit that I can prove what I am saying at the present time.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink
LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

What is the hon. member saying?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Permalink

April 25, 1938