March 28, 1938

LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

With deference I think my right hon. friend is missing one point, namely, that there is to be a provision forbidding me as Minister of Finance to sign a guarantee unless the guarantee given by the province has the three year leeway. My right hon. friend will see that if the government could be required by the banks to pay in advance of the expiry of the three year period, that would create an obligation which the dominion government, if not under the terms of this legislation, at least for the sake of the credit of the country, would have to meet. So we endeavour to take care of it by saying that the Minister of Finance must not give the guarantee of the dominion unless he is sure that the province which is being guaranteed will not be required by its creditor to pay until three years from the date of the advance. That is really the intention. Then, in order to provide for the possibility of the province paying sums voluntarily in advance of requirement, the exception is made. Of course we are very anxious to have them do that.

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I merely say that the minister has much greater confidence in the provinces when he is dealing with the distribution of seed and oil and feed than when they are making a bargain with the banks. If the provinces have not intelligence enough to make the bargain that you say they have to make before you will give your guarantee, I have not that measure of confidence as to the other things which have been said here tonight with respect to the distribution of seed, oil, etc., because the provinces have to make that bargain, not we.

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

But we refuse to come in unless it is a particular kind of bargain.

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Well, this may be the way to do it.

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
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Section agreed to. Railways and Shipping On section 7-When province deemed unable to fulfil its guarantee.


CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

That is an extraordinary clause. Surely the Prime Minister was not present in council when this bill was passed. Look at what the governor in council is going to do. He is going to decide that Saskatchewan is unable to pay its debts.

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

The colleague of my right hon. friend, the hon. member for St. Lawrence-St. George, last year raised the point in connection with similar legislation to this in connection with the words in section 5, paragraph (i), "that the province is unable to fulfil its guarantee." He prophesied that such words would be completely unsatisfactory to the banks. He said there must be some means of defining when inability on the part of the province arises. We have tried to meet that point, because I may say the banks took the hint and did advance legal doubts as to the position. We have tried to meet the difficulty by section 7.

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I should say it makes it possible to attach an entirely different meaning to the words "inability to pay." The way in which it has been expressed is that the governor in council may by order, not define what is inability to pay, but define the circumstances under which the province shall be conclusively deemed unable to pay.

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

There were a number of headaches over that.

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
Permalink

Section agreed to. On section 8-Orders and regulations.


CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Should we not say, as was often pointed out here, "not inconsistent with this act"? Some question was raised when we were on that side of the house and you were on this side regarding that. "To carry out the purposes and intention," I think should be limited by the words, "not inconsistent with the provisions of this act."

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

It is just the same as it was before.

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
Permalink

Section agreed to. Bill reported. Mr. DUNNING moved the third reading of the bill.


CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Would the minister undertake that the file dealing with the report made by the Minister of Trade and Commerce, who is just now out of the chamber, will be made available for us to read? In all conscience what we should do is read that

file before the bill has third reading; but in view of the urgency of the matter, I shall be content if I have an opportunity to look over these telegrams and correspondence.

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

I shall be glad to call the attention of the Minister of Trade and Commerce to the necessity of bringing down all correspondence leading up to the order in council to which my right hon. friend refers.

Motion agreed to and bill read the third time and passed.

On motion of Mr. Mackenzie King the. house adjourned at 10.53 p.m.

Tuesday, March 29, 1938

Topic:   SEED GRAIN
Subtopic:   GUARANTEE OF LOANS FOR PURCHASE OF SEED AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN SEEDING OPERATIONS IN WESTERN PROVINCES
Permalink

March 28, 1938