March 23, 1938

CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

But had they these agreed charges?

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I do not know what that has to do with the question, but as a matter of fact they have not agreed charges in the United States.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

That is his point, that the agreed charges have to do with Panama shipments.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Quite. In the first place I would say that we have protection in the bill against the very thing that my hon. friend fears.

My hon. friend also said that this bill was a slavish copy of the British act.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

I did not say that.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

It was the hon. member for London (Mr. Betts).

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I am sorry. The British act provides that any shipper or body of shippers can produce an agreed charge. We go further than that. We also provide that any carrier can protest against the agreed charge; that is, any carrier under this act, which means any regulated carrier.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Would that mean that one carrier could protest against another carrier making an agreed charge?

Transport Commission

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Quite. Any carrier may protest that the agreed charge is unduly injurious to his business. We have a further provision, that even after the agreed charge is made, if representation is made to the minister that in the public interest this charge is working unfairly, the minister can send the case back to the transport board for rehearing. That clause was introduced in the English act, and we have it in our bill exactly for the reason my hon. friend suggests, to make sure that an agreed charge, even after it is agreed to, is not working to put a competitor out of business. So I think further study will indicate that we have ample safeguards.

What is the situation to-day with regard to that one ship? I think we have only one ship plying between Vancouver and Montreal. That one ship has agreements with the railways that "We will take only a certain proportion of this thing and only a certain proportion of that thing." They carry it at the railway rates; they fill the boat at the expense of the railways. Why is it unfair to bring that boat under regulation? If a spread in prices is required, let the board determine what the spread will be; but why have this month to month rule that "We will only have fifty per cent of the salmon or thirty per cent of the iron rods," or "We will take ten per cent of the automobiles"? Why not come out in the open, lay the agreement before the board of transport commissioners and get it approved in the ordinary way? I cannot see anything in the position of that one boat that is different from that of any other boat which is being brought under regulation in the coastal trade of Canada.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

Is it the intention in this bill to prevent competition by that line of ships? I believe it is not one ship only, but different ships that are used; ships under charter are brought in and put on this work.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

No. But we want competition in the open. We want all competitive factors applying the same rules. A ship at Vancouver can file with the board of transport commissioners any rate that it likes, and I have reason to believe that if it is the only ship plying there, the board will approve that rate. But the railways have a right to know what the ship is charging, just as the ship will have a right to know what the railway is charging. There will be the same publicity in both cases, and we shall not have the situation we have to-day, of a ship being able to shop around anywhere it likes with undisclosed rates, as against the railway which has full publication of its rates.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Can we do that in the case of a ship which is registered in another country,-a British ship registered in London, for instance?

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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

A British ship entering the coastal trade must abide by the laws of Canada.

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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I know that.

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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

A foreign ship cannot engage in the coastal trade.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I am referring to one

which would run from Vancouver to Montreal.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

It is engaged in coastal trade if it runs between two Canadian ports, and it must abide by the laws of Canada. We have gone fully into that, and we find that such a ship is subject to regulation.

It is nearly six o'clock, and I believe I have said all that needs to be said at the present time. After the bill receives second reading, I shall ask that it be sent to the standing committee on railways, canals and telegraph lines, where it will have a most searching examination.

Topic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OF PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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Motion agreed to, bill read the second , time and referred to the standing committee i on railways, canals and telegraph lines. At six o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order. Thursday, March 24, 1938


March 23, 1938