March 18, 1938

LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

Section 1 was allowed to stand as the result of certain representations to the effect that persons domiciled in Canada who served in the South African war in units [DOT]other than Canadian contingents might properly be brought under the provisions of this bill. I have now drafted two amendments to cover the matter. One is a substitute for paragraph (iii) of subsection 2. Paragraph (iii) reads:

(iii) In the case of the Canadian contingents serving in the South African war, the zone of military operations in South Africa in which Canadian contingents were engaged prior to the first day of June, 1902.

* I have substituted:

(iii) In the case of the South African war, the zone of military operations in South Africa in which the forces of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland were engaged prior to the first day of June, 1902.

That is in order to permit persons who served in units other than the Canadian contingents to come under the bill. It is proposed also to amend subsection 2 of the act by adding after subparagraph (ii) of paragraph (j) the following as (ii) (a):

Any person domiciled and resident in Canada immediately prior to the eleventh day of October, 1899, who served with the forces of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in South Africa during the South African war; provided that such person landed in South Africa prior to the first day of June, 1902.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I suggest that it might be desirable to use, instead of the words in paragraph (hh) "the war waged by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. . as there is a great difference of opinion as to who started that war, the words "the war between the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and the Dutch republics." Does the minister not think that that change would be desirable?

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

I think it would be eminently desirable.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
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IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

Will not the word "domiciled" promote confusion? Wouldn't "resident" be better? The question will arise, what is "domiciled"?

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

That is the whole point.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

That is a very old question. The legal authorities in this chamber might very readily get into some kind of snarl if we started discussing the difference between residence and domicile. We have had the question up time and time again in connection with election acts, and I do not believe it has ever been settled to the satisfaction of everyone. But in this case we should, in my opinion, endeavour to stand by a fairly strict interpretation of " domicile." In its broadest sense I believe it would mean a person who was settled here with his family with the intention of remaining a citizen of this country,

War Veterans' Allowance Act

whereas residence would apply to a man who perhaps was here only temporarily while his family was living in some other country. In view of the fact that this is beneficial legislation and not intended to be too wide, we should restrict it to those who were really citizens of this country. Under the circumstances I believe that " domiciled " is the better word to use.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

The object was, I understood, to provide for those who went to war, rather than to put it on the basis of domicile in Canada.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

We could not justify this amendment at all if it were based on residence. As I have explained, the theory was that a man left Canada to go to the war and with the intention of returning to Canada. There are two elements which constitute domicile; the first is residence, and the second is the animus manendi, to use the language of the books. In other words there must be the intention on the part of the person who has resided in the country to make it his permanent home. The leading authority is the case of a very rich man from the United States who went to England and lived there for over twenty years. The House of Lords held that he was domiciled in the United States, because he always had the intention, as evidenced by his writings and his statements, of going back to the United States, and that was his home. The question there was one of succession duties. The hon. member for Comox-Alberni (Mr. Neill) with his usual legal astuteness, will grasp the point at once. The reason we are proposing to do something for a man who joined a force that was not a Canadian force is that he had resided here and went away with the intention of returning to Canada as his permanent home-these are the two factors that create domicile. He was therefore domiciled in Canada. If he had been a mere resident in Canada I fear we should have great difficulty in justifying the grant; we should find ourselves in a maze of complex difficulties. The language the minister has employed in the amendment is slightly different from that which I proposed to offer him, but I think his language is better calculated to indicate the thought I had in view. The action taken by the government will be appreciated by many who left here in good faith-because we were not then sending a contingent-joined British forces, and at the end of the war returned to Canada. The test of theiT ability to get money will be, did they come back to Canada at the end of the war or shortly after?

[Mr. Power.1

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
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CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

The words used in (ii) (a), "any person, domiciled and resident in Canada immediately prior to the eleventh day of October 1899," would not cover the man who went to England and enlisted in 1900 or 1901. Perhaps the wording should be the same as that used in the original War Veterans' Allowance Act: "who was domiciled in Canada at the time that he joined any such force." I think it would be better to have the wording the same for each class.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

I do not understand the hon. member's objection. Does he mean to try to cover the case of the man who for some reason came to Canada say in 1900 after the war broke out and then decided to go back to England and joined a contingent there? That, I should say, is a very remote occurrence.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

That is the way the present act reads with regard to the great war.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

Is it worth while, for about perhaps ten people, probably not more, to make an amendment?

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

There may be only ten who are covered by the amendment, but surely they should receive consideration.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

I do not think there is necessity for the amendment. The case suggested by my hon. friend would not arise. It would involve a man having been resident outside Canada, in England, let us say, at the time the war broke out, then coming here and remaining for a few months and returning to England to join the troops that were proceeding to South Africa, and then coming back to Canada. It is hardly likely that he would have the animus manendi, that my right hon. friend speaks of.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Those are the only words the books do use to cover it.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

I can remember pleading a case before the circuit court in Quebec when I endeavoured to show that a man who was employed as a cigar maker in Toronto and had been so employed for twenty years was still entitled to be on the electoral list in Quebec, that since he had that animus he remained on the list. Some will say that he voted though he was absent.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

His political predilections were fairly well defined. May I suggest that the words "and resident" would have to come out, because domicile involves residence.

War Veterans' Allowance Act

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

No. My cigar maker was resident in Toronto but was domiciled in Quebec.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I do not wish to join in any legal argument with my hon. friend, but I would point out that there can be no such thing as domicile without residence; there must be residence to constitute domicile. I remember Lord Haldane discussing the point once in a case in the Privy Council.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink
LIB

Charles Gavan Power (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

He does not know Canadian law.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   'EXTENSION OF ALLOWANCES TO INCLUDE CERTAIN OTHER CLASSES-ENLARGEMENT OF MEMBERSHIP OF BOARD
Permalink

March 18, 1938