March 10, 1938

LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I have no personal knowledge of the matter, but I believe that is correct. A significant fact, however, is that thirty years have passed since 1907, and thus far we appear to have escaped anything in the nature of serious international complications. I think our American friends fully understand the terms upon which power is being exported and will understand whatever terms may be inserted in any permission to export power that may be granted.

At the present time a question arises as to what might happen in a critical situation were large quantities of power being exported to the United States. During the last few days we have seen references in the press to alleged representations made in Washington by the New York power authorities in conference with the president and to views said to be entertained by the president con-

51952-77J

cerning the significance of any extensive export of power from Canada to the United States. While there is no possibility, I imagine, of war arising at any time between, this country and the United States, none of us can say that there are not possibilities at some time in the future-I hope and pray they may never arise-that the United States, may be drawn into a war into which Canada may not be drawn, or conceivably that Canada might be drawn into a war into which, as for awhile was the case during the great war, the United States may not be drawn. In either case the question might arise as to how far neutrality was being preserved by the country that was not at war if, on the one hand, it was supplying power to a nation that was at war, or on the other was receiving from: a nation that was at war the power to develop-some of its industries producing essential war supplies. I believe that question is important enough to mention as a consideration of which account should be taken in considering possible future complications, and of course it is something that will have to be considered in the event of further exports of power.

These are all important considerations. If the house will permit me, I should like, for a few minutes after we resume, to place on the record one or two statements which bear out the contentions I have been making with respect to the pros and cons of the export of power. I hope, however, that enough has already been said to convince hon. members not only that there is ample justification for the government bringing forward this legislation at the present time but also for giving it the particular form it has, namely requiring that power shall hereafter be exported from Canada only with the approval of parliament, and that in the light of all existing circumstances and the merits of the case,, realizing that there is much to be said both, for and against the export of power, and that the course it may be wisest to take can best be decided only after all sides have been heard and all relevant facts carefully considered.

At six o'clock the house took recess.

After Recess

The house resumed at eight o'clock..

Topic:   ELECTRIC POWER
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

What I had in mind before adjournment as an addition to my remarks was largely in the nature of quotations from some of the documents which are recorded in the white paper I tabled some

Electric Power Export

[DOT]days ago. If the house will allow rue to indicate in Hansard where the quotations appear it will save the trouble of putting them at length on the record. With this permission I conclude what for the present I have to say on the subject of export of power.

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CON

Hugh Alexander Stewart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. H. A. STEWART (Leeds):

Electric Power Export

Again at page 227, The Water Power -Situation in Canada, by Arthur V. White, *consulting engineer of the commission, speaks *along the same line and emphasizes the value of hydro-electric power.

All the recommendations in these reports that I have been able to find emphasize the value and importance of hydro-electric power, and are against the export of it from Canada. The reasons which they give were, I submit, sound then, and if they were sound then they are stronger now, because the use of hydroelectric power has expanded. We are finding new uses for it every day, and the extent to which it will be used and required is bound to increase as the years go by. All these recommendations are in favour of a restriction or prohibition of the export of hydro-electric power.

The other feature I wish to emphasize is the importance of the policy in relation to the United States. Our international relations are a matter of tremendous importance to Canada. The necessity of at all times being on good terms with our neighbours to the south needs only to be stated to be .admitted and, on different occasions has been emphasized by the right hon. the Prime Minuter. Much has been done to ensure the maintenance of these good relations by the appointment of joint commissions and international commissions for the purpose of solving amicably any questions which may arise.

The export of hydro-electric power has been the subject of a declaration and of an attitude taken by a responsible authority in the United States. The Prime Minister referred to it this afternoon, and I propose to make a further reference to it. The Prime Minister referred to P.C. 2203 of August 25, 1914, which states:

The committee of the privy council have had before them a report dated June 16, 1914, from the Right Hon. the Secretary of State for External Affairs, calling attention to a recent opinion of the Public Service Commission of the State of New York in the matter of the application of the Canadian-American Power Corporation for permission to import an additional 46,000 horsepower of electrical energy from Canada into the United States.^ The minister observes that the opinion, in discussing the laws and regulations of the Dominion of Canada relating to the exportation of electrical energy and their effect on the question of granting the desired permit, uses the following language:

"Government Limitations Upon the Export of Electric Power from Canada The Canadian government requires the taking out of a yearly licence permitting exportation of Niagara electric power. Upon the limitations existing as to the exportation of electric power from Canada into the United States, '

it appears that for many years, under the so-called Burton Act, and by action of the Canadian government a very large amount of Canadian-produced Niagara electric power has been and is now being imported into this country at and about the Niagara frontier, and is being distributed for light and industrial power and railroad purposes within the State of New York in many places, embracing Syracuse to the east, the southwestern part of the state, territory south of Lake Ontario and Buffalo, and Niagara Falls in the west. The companies distributing this imported power have issued stocks and bonds in very large amounts based upon their business of distributing Canadian power. This applicant is now seeking to enter the same field. Without going into details, it seems sufficient to say that the prohibition of exportation from Canada of this present electric power which now comes into this country would paralyze business and industry of many kinds and _ would deprive numerous localities of electricity for light. American-produced Niagara power is so lar from supplying the vital needs of the section of the state above described that the immediate results of such prohibition would plainly amount to a great public calamity.

The form of securing a licence yearly from the dominion government is required by the dominion law, but such licence has been granted yearly to the other great producing electrical corporations of Canada, and no reason appears for apprehension that any discrimination would be made against the Electrical Development Companv or the Toronto Power Company, lessee. 'We have nothing before us but the suggestion that the Dominion of Canada may at some future time forbid this exportation. This commission must assume that international relations affecting so important a subject as the means of continuing great industries which have grown up in reliance upon the use of this imported power, and as well the interests of the Canadian producing companies themselves, have become fixed and subject only to such changes as will fully protect the great commercial and industrial interests and rights now served by this power brought from Canada. The time has long since passed when governments proceed ruthlessly from pure national rashness or anger to destroy the settled accepted commercial relations and formally vested rights of persons and corporations.

That is the end of the quotation. The order in council then continues:

The minister further observes that from the foregoing it is conceivable that some misapprehension may exist as to the scope and effect of the action of the government of Canada with respect to the exportation of electrical energy and as to the object toward which such action has been and is directed. . .

That object is apparent from and indeed is embodied in the laws, regulations, and procedure under wrhich this government has hitherto permitted such exportation and by virtue ot which alone electrical energy is exported trom Canada. .

The Electricity and Fluid Exportation Act provides that no person shall export electrical energy without a licence, or otherwise than as permitted by such a licence; that subject to the regulations made by him in that behali, the governor in council may grant licences; that licences shall be revocable upon such

Electric Power Export

notice to the licencee as the governor in council deems reasonable in each case; that any licence may provide that the quantity of power to be exported shall be limited to the surplus after the licencee has first provided for Canadian consumers to the extent defined by the licence; that every such licence shall be revocable at will by the governor in council if the licencee neglects to comply with any of the conditions imposed with regard to the supply and distribution of power in Canada; that the governor in council may make regulations for giving effect to the objects and intention of the act.

By order in council of the 4th of November, 1007, regulations were established to give effect to the act. Under these regulations licences to export electrical energy must be applied for on or before the 1st day of April of each year, and are, therefore, valid only for one year. It is further ordered that any licence issued shall be revocable at will by the governor in council if the licencee neglects to comply with any of the conditions from time to time imposed by the governor in council with regard to the supply and distribution of electrical energy in Canada; and, moreover, that whenever such electrical energy is required for the use of purchasers in Canada any such licence shall be revocable upon such notice to the licencee as the governor in council deems reasonable in each ease.

Under established procedure the licences granted have invariably directed attention to the fact that they were granted by virtue of The Electricity and Fluid Exportation Act and the regulations made thereunder, and for some years past have expressly pointed out that as they were granted for only one year licencees must not enter into any contract which they would be unable to fulfil if the licence should not be renewed, or if the act, or the regulations made thereunder, should be changed.

The effect of these laws and the procedure is clear, and it must be abundantly apparent what the object of this government has been and is. Power or energy' generated from streams in Canada, has been as it must be, regarded primarily as a natural resource of the country to be developed and utilized to the utmost possible extent for the benefit of the country. And it was recognized that while it was consistent with that view to permit exportation so long as the demand in Canada for power should not be sufficient to absorb the whole production, yet it could be permitted only in such manner and on such terms as did not conflict with the ultimate necessity of securing and preserving this natural resource for the use of the people of Canada if and when needed by them.

In view of this object clearly embodied in the laws and regulations referred to, it seems hardly necessary to point out that the securing of a licence each year, so far from being a matter of mere " form," is one of substantial significance. Nor can it be admitted that, by reason of the existence of industries elsewhere which have used electrical energy exported from Canada, there has been created a condition or status which in any way involves an obligation on the part of this government to permit a permanent diversion of this natural resource from the country. For it is the fact that all electrical energy exported from Canada has been exported only by virtue of The Electricity and Fluid Exportation Act and the

regulations made in pursuance of it; and not only are these, as laws of the Dominion of Canada, within the notice of those interested, but the minister is- advised that it has been the invariable practice of the officers administering the act to inform licensees that they should notify all persons, with whom they might enter into contracts to supply electrical energy, of the terms and conditions imposed by the act and the regulations, and that in fact all such persons have been so notified. Their use of the electrical energy has, therefore, been subject to and in full recognition of the contingency contemplated by the act as above pointed out.

But though it is impossible to accept the suggestion, if indeed such a suggestion is intended, that anything in the nature of a vested right has been acquired, it is nevertheless recognized that many consumers who have been using Canadian exported electrical energy may have placed themselves and their business activities in such a relation to this supply of energy that any sudden, complete cessation of it would entail great inconvenience and possible hardship. This is, of course, a consideration which should receive every respect consistent with the duty of this government ultimately to secure for this country the best benefits of the natural resources appertaining to it. The regulations established to give effect to The Electricity and Fluid Exportation Act themselves provide that in the event that the exported electrical energy is required for the use of purchasers in Canada licences shall be revocable only upon reasonable notice. In accordance with the spirit of this provision, and it need scarcely be added, with every desire and intention to avoid anything that could be regarded elsewhere as an arbitrary exercise of power, the most careful consideration is being given to the question of the terms and notice on which the undoubted right of this government to terminate at any time the exportation of electrical energy may best be exercised so as to entail the least possible inconvenience to those concerned.

And while the effect and intention of the laws and regulations above referred to are apparent from their face and neither need nor will have gained anything from re-statement, yet Your Royal Highness's advisers are desirous that no injury or hardship should accrue through a misapprehension on the part of the consumers who have used or hereafter will use electrical energy exported from Canada, however unfounded that misapprehension may be.

The committee, therefore, advise, on the recommendation of the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for External Affairs, that a copy of this minute, if approved, be forwarded to His Majesty's Ambassador at Washington with the request that he make representations to the United States government in the sense thereof in order that the matter may properly be brought to the attention of whatever persons or interests are concerned.

All of which is respectfully submitted for approval.

(Sgd.) Rodolphe Boudreau,

Clerk of the Privy Council.

I would draw particular attention to the paragraph which points out that it was considered necessary to send this to His Majesty's Ambassador at Washington, in order

Electric Power Export

that representations might be made in the right direction in connection with this position. . Here, I think, is a plain warning as to the attitude likely to be taken by the users of power in the United States, if exported from Canada, even under an annual licence and with the distinct provision in the licence that it may be cancelled at any time.

I say that, because those were the very provisions which were in the licences referred to in this memorandum. With that warning before us, I say we should be very careful of the action we take in connection with the export of hydro electric power.

The sixth annual report of the commission of conservation to which I have referred, quotes this very memorandum at page 146, and refers to the Burton Act of the United States which dealt with the importation of hydro electric power from Canada. Again there is contained the warning against the export of hydro electric power. I quote from page 147 of this sixth report:

The Burton Act empowered the issuance of revocable permits for the transmission of additional electric energy from Canada into the United States, and it may further be emphasized that the Canadian measure-the Fluid Exportation Act-provides that licences for the export of power from Canada are also revocable. What, then, is the real import of a statement such as is recorded by the Public Service Commission of the State of New York? It^ in effect, proclaims that the people of New York need not be concerned about permits and licences, revocable or otherwise. It states plainly that, if they can only succeed in once getting this electric energy from Canada into the United States, and have it distributed so that their citizens and industries become dependent upon it, then Canada could not hope to alter these conditions. In the words of the commissioners, the conditions in the state would "have become fixed, and subject only to such changes as will protect the great commercial and industrial interests and rights now served by electric power brought from Canada/' that is to say, as will protect "the great commercial and industrial interests and rights" in the United States.

That was the view taken by the commission at that time, upon this memorandum referred to in this order in council. Again I say that in this house, desiring to maintain at all times the most amicable relations and to avoid anything having the semblance of friction or misunderstanding, we should be very careful indeed in the matter of this export of hydro electric power, particularly in view of this warning that has been given both by the power commission of the state of New York and by our own commission of conservation.

It has been pointed out, Mr. Speaker, that there may .be some temporary financial advantage in the export of hydro-electric

power. Well, it is difficult to say just where that advantage is to be found, whether with the consumer or with some company desiring to export power. We ought, however, to weigh any temporary financial advantage against any possible future complication, and we should take the long view of the matter rather than the short view. Taking the long view, and considering also the tendency of industrial development and the added uses to which hydro-electric power may be put,

I submit that it is not in the interests of the Canadian people to export hydro-electric power at this time. This matter is, I understand, receiving some attention in the United States. I have reason to believe, from something I read in the newspapers, that the president himself is giving the matter some attention, and that it is causing him some concern. I believe he sees in it possible complications and difficulties in the future.

If I wanted to give an example of the desirability of retaining Canadian resources and the difficulty of getting them back once they have gone from Canada, I think I might not inappropriately refer to the diversion of water at Chicago. There is an instance where there is not a licence or a permit; where there is no authority whatever, and where the supreme court of the United States has directed a reduction in the amount of the diversion. The question has been the cause of long, extended negotiations and discussions between the government here and the government at Washington; yet we have not succeeded in terminating that diversion, which is to the disadvantage of the Canadian people. I contend that if this condition prevails when there is no authority and no right, if a licence is granted and power is exported under that licence it would .be very much more difficult to get that power back when it is required here than it has been to lessen the diversion of water at Chicago..

As I have said, Mr. Speaker, in essence and principle this bill is the same as the one I introduced and which passed this house. I believe it should commend itself to the favourable judgment of the house, and I propose to support it on the second reading.

Topic:   ELECTRIC POWER
Subtopic:   TRANSFER TO PARLIAMENT OF CONTROL OF EXPORT EXCEPT IN INTERNATIONAL EMERGENCY
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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. W. EARL ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

Mr. Speaker, undoubtedly the bill which is now before the house deals with one of the most important national issues that have come before parliament this year, an issue which, in the words of the right hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) may be more important than perhaps any other matter that may come forward this session. Before dealing with the bill, however, I feel that I should reply to

Electric Power Export

the reference to myself made by the Prime Minister in his remarks this afternoon. With all due respect to the press, which seldom makes a mistake, I wish to make it clear to him, that what I said at Petrolia the other day was not quoted quite exactly, and before I conclude my address I shall repeat just what I said at that time. When the right hon. gentleman suggested that I ran for cover and came to this parliament, it occurred to me that no man should know more about running for cover than he does, because I well recall the days when he had to run to cover from his own county in order to get elected to this house. He ran from Waterloo to Prince Edward Island, from Prince Edward Island to North York, and from North York he went a3 far as he could, to Prince Albert, in order to get elected to this house.

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LIB

William Henry Golding

Liberal

Mr. GOLDING:

He was not leading a party in another house.

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

No; but I wish to say to my hon. friend that I sat in this house when the right hon. Prime Minister had no seat here, and was still leading his party. May I say also to my hon. friend that I have been elected more often for my riding than he has been elected for his. I might also say that had I run for cover I would probably be in the legislature at the present time. But I think those who know my record best know that I have run for cover very little, and since 1925 I have been elected in my own riding more often than any other hon. member in the house has been.

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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

I deny that.

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

I am excluding such supreme characters as the Minister of Justice (Mr. Lapointe), who has gone back to his electors time after time to be reelected as a minister. Why, he being Minister of Justice and with the great record he has, we would not even have defeated him in our own riding. However, I wish to say that I am not as easily frightened as the right hon. Prime Minister might suggest. I have not been in politics as long as the right hon. gentleman, but I am not at all frightened nor do I run for cover either from either the little premier of Ontario or the great Prime Minister of Canada himself.

The bill that is now before the house deals with an issue which we all recognize as being of great national concern to-day, and one which may be of great international concern to-morrow. Under this new state of affairs, this new parliamentary procedure that is going to be put into force, of course we shall have an opportunity to discuss in more detail the

merits and demerits of power export as such when any of these private bills are presented to parliament. Therefore it is not my purpose, to deal with the merits of power export in itself, nor could I do so under the rules of this parliament. I realize that, by the rules of parliament, on the second reading of a bill I am constrained to discuss the merits of the bill itself, and, as the Prime Minister very properly said this afternoon, its broader principles. I hope, however, that before the bill is brought into the house for third reading, hon. members will be able to ascertain more clearly the desires and purposes of the government, so that they may know more definitely whether the bill is carelessly drafted or cleverly devised.

The Prime Minister reviewed the chief feature of the whole issue, namely the surplus power. It was said that this bill is the same as that introduced by the hon. member for Leeds (Mr. Stewart). Why, Mr. Speaker, the word "surplus" is clearly and somewhat cleverly, carefully or carelessly dropped from the clause in relation to the export of power, except in the single instance where it is for temporary or emergency purposes.

I feel, however, that there is one thing more in the bill that is a little less conspicuous than that. That is the way in which the government have evaded their own responsibility in this great national issue. I repeat what the Prime Minister has said, that this is a great national issue, perhaps the most important matter to come before this parliament. As I sat and listened this afternoon to the right hon. gentleman, I could not help thinking that I have never before listened to anyone talk so long about an issue so great and say so little. I compliment the right hon. gentleman upon that art, for he has long since established a record in this regard, but not even his most ardent supporter sitting behind him-

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LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette

Liberal

Mr. BRADETTE:

Is the hon. member trying to do the same thing?

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

Not even my hon. friend who has just spoken knows how his right hon. leader is going to vote on this great national issue. This issue is of tremendous national concern; this issue has been growing every year. It enters more and more into our domestic life and into our great industrial life. Surely an issue of such magnitude is worthy of some leadership by the Prime Minister of the day, a Prime Minister with a top-heavy government behind him of 170 members. When have we seen in this house a Prime Minister use a private bill to cover up government responsibility?

Electric Power Export

I realize that if I said that this was almost the same as using a private bill to deal with tariff matters, someone would immediately say, "Oh, no, that is a different matter." May I remind the house that it might just as well be suggested that the national policy of this country in connection with immigration or any other complicated international problem should be ushered into this house by means of a private bill in order to relieve the government of responsibility. I have never run for cover in that way, but I say to the Prime Minister that so far as this issue is concerned, he ran for cover in major style.

The procedure of parliament and the responsibility of government are involved in this matter. We heard the Prime Minister this afternoon quote from Doctor Beauchesne's book. I think he could have gone to any other set of rules; I think he could have quoted the experiences in the older parliament in Great Britain, and they would all have shown that a private bill, such as these private divorce bills that come before the house, must deal with a person, a corporation, a municipality or a district. Yet we have a matter of national concern, a matter wdiich may in time become of international concern, brought before us in the form of a private bill. I said in Lambton that the Prime Minister perhaps was frightened and was taking refuge behind a private bill rather than saying where he stood. We heard what he said this afternoon to the effect that he had made up his mind in November to bring this issue before parliament; we knew that before this afternoon; but I venture to say that some of his supporters did not know until very recently that this matter was to be brought in dressed up as a private bill. This great government with 170 members behind it-[DOT]

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?

An hon. MEMBER:

Hear, hear.

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

" Hear,

hear," says the brave Minister of National Defence (Mr. Mackenzie).

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LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

He did not say that.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

I did not say a word.

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

The Minister of National Defence, the whip and the Prime Minister sit with 170 members behind them and bring up in parliament, hiding behind the petticoats of a private bill, one of the greatest issues to be brought up this year. It is true that some time ago a similar bill reached second reading in this house; but inasmuch as this bill gives to parliament an authority which has often been exercised by

order in council, it also transfers government responsibility to a private bill. I submit that while this may be a gesture toward parliamentary freedom, it is not much of a compliment to responsible government.

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?

An hon. MEMBER:

Hear, hear.

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?

An hon. MEMBER:

There is one supporter.

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

My hon. friends think there should be more noise, but may I submit that those who make the most noise sometimes think the least. So far as the principles of this bill are concerned, I submit that the main point is the procedure of parliament. The Prime Minister cannot refer to any other instance where a matter of great national concern has been ushered into this house by a private bill. I believe he is justified in bringing the matter before parliament; but where is government responsibility in connection with this issue?

We have heard repeatedly that this is one of our most outstanding issues. We have heard repeatedly that it is growing in prominence every year. We know now that electricity is brightening the homes in the countryside just as it brightens the homes in the cities. We know it is turning the machines in the farm barns just as it turns the vast machines in our factories. It is a recognized fact on both sides of the border that where * you have cheap power, there will population be found. In proof of this all you have to do is to look at the map. Great centres of population will be found in the Niagara district and along the St. Lawrence. This fact has been recognized by both countries. I can well remember being in this house when the so-called Sifton interests brought up a private bill in connection with the Georgian Bay canal. May I remind the house of such eminent citizens as Sir Clifford Sifton referring to the export of power and stating:

The suggestion that power can he generated on the Canadian side, and exported to the United States, and that thereafter, when it is required in Canada, the company can be ordered to deprive United States customers of the power and deliver it in Canada, is entirely illusory.

There are other instances where outstanding citizens, both in this country and across the border, have expressed the same thought. Some years ago, when there was a surplus of power, the following statement appeared in the 1920 report of the Bankers' Trust Company:

The water powers of Canada have been thoroughly investigated and are intelligently administered. The combination of cheap power, favourable living conditions for labour and good labour markets, is rapidly transforming

Electric Power Export

Canada from a country which a few years ago was almost wholly agricultural to one in which the manufacturing interests are of great and growing importance.

Mr. Henry L. Stinson, secretary for war of the United States, stated:

Canada, if we do not take it-

That is, the power.

-will use the entire amount. . .It would result in giving to Canada very possibly a large number of industries, which otherwise would be established on this side of the Niagara falls.

I am not going to weary the house at the present time with statements which, perhaps, have already been placed on Hansard. But I wish to point out, Mr. Speaker, that there are those in your great province of Quebec who in the past have held similar opinions. The late popular Minister of Justice, Hon. Sir Lomer Gouin, said some years ago:

The export of power from Canadian sources to industrial districts in the north eastern section of the United States would place at the disposal of United States industrialists a Canadian raw material from the sale of which the profits to Canada would not be large, but which would be used as an element for cheap production to bring Canadian industries into still further disadvantage in competition with those across the border.

There are others in your province, sir, who have referred to the advantage of retaining power here for the development of our own resources, among them no less than the Hon. Maurice Duplessis himself, who stated in 1933:

Natural resources are a heritage to be preserved for the people of Quebec and not to be sold to the United States for the sake of putting a few cents in the government's pocket.

Once exportation of electricity to the United States is permitted, it will never be possible to halt. It is a complete alienation for the benefit of the stronger.

The Montreal Standard stated in 1930:

The export of power is followed by an exodus of population to the centres supplied by that power.

I do not intend to read all that was said by the greatest hydro-electric power authority Canada has ever known, the late Sir Adam Beck. I shall read merely a couple of short sentences from a long interview which he gave when he was feeling very strongly on this issue. He said:

To export power to the United States would foster and build up industries in the eastern United States at the expense of those in Canada.

Canadian cities and rural communities would be deprived of further low-cost power.

Topic:   ELECTRIC POWER
Subtopic:   TRANSFER TO PARLIAMENT OF CONTROL OF EXPORT EXCEPT IN INTERNATIONAL EMERGENCY
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

What is the date of that? Where was that interview given?

Topic:   ELECTRIC POWER
Subtopic:   TRANSFER TO PARLIAMENT OF CONTROL OF EXPORT EXCEPT IN INTERNATIONAL EMERGENCY
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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):

It was given in 1925.

Topic:   ELECTRIC POWER
Subtopic:   TRANSFER TO PARLIAMENT OF CONTROL OF EXPORT EXCEPT IN INTERNATIONAL EMERGENCY
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March 10, 1938