March 1, 1938

LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Coastwise traffic on either

coast is not competitive with other forms of transport. It is more or less a condition by itself. It is my intention at the proper time to send this bill to a committee, where matters of the kind can be discussed. If it is considered in committee that any good purpose would be served by regulating shipping along either coast, a clause of that kind could be -inserted.

Topic:   TRANSPORT COMMISSION
Subtopic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OP PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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?

Mr. ICINLEY@

This provision with regard to coastwise shipping was in the bill when it was introduced last year, I believe, but there was so much opposition to it to the senate committee that it was struck out. Is that not so?

Topic:   TRANSPORT COMMISSION
Subtopic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OP PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

My recollection is that the bill never included shipping of the type that has been suggested. I may be wrong about that; perhaps it did.

Topic:   TRANSPORT COMMISSION
Subtopic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OP PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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LIB

John James Kinley

Liberal

Mr. KINLEY:

Yes, it did.

Resolution reported, read the second time and concurred in. Mr. Howe thereupon moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 31, to establish a Board of Transport Commissioners for Canada, with authority in respect of transport by railways, ships and aircraft.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

Topic:   TRANSPORT COMMISSION
Subtopic:   AUTHORITY TO CONTROL TRANSPORT OP PASSENGERS AND GOODS BY RAILWAYS, SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT
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TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA


Hon. C. D. HOWE (Minister of Transport) moved the second reading of Bill No. 29, to amend The Trans-Canada Air Lines Act, 1937. He said: Mr. Speaker, hon. members will note that this is a very short bill. As I stated in speaking to the resolution it has two purposes in view, both of which I think were contemplated when the priginal legislation was passed but were more or less inadvertently omitted. The first section amends paragraph 14A of the bill to permit Trans-Canada Air Lines to purchase a share of the company which will operate the transatlantic air transport service, such purchase being an obligation of the government of Canada. The memorandum entered into provides that 24i per cent of the stock of the operating company shall be owned by such company as the government of Canada may designate for that purpose, and it is the intention of the government to designate Trans-Canada Air Lines as the Canadian shareholder of the transatlantic company. The second purpose of the bill is to permit the extension of the trans-Canada contract to lines outside Canada. As originally drawn the bill permitted the company to operate outside Canada, but such guarantees as might be given by the Post Office Department to the company were limited to points within Canada. The route of the airway crosses a portion of the state of Maine, and it is also probable that the airway will operate two or possibly three international connections. At the present moment it is operating an international connection between Vancouver and Seattle. The purpose of the second paragraph is to enable the guarantees under the trans-Canada contract to extend to these operations. Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and the house went into committee thereon, Mr. Johnston (Lake Centre) in the chair. On section 1-Transatlantic business.


CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

What is the present position with regard to the issued capital stock of Trans-Canada Air Lines?

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

The capital stock of Trans-

Canada Air Lines at present is wholly owned by the Canadian National Railways. We have been approached by other aviation companies to discuss the disposal of a portion of it, but these offers have never been com-

Trans-Canada Air Lines

plete cash offers, and as cash is required for the purposes of the company we have declined to barter for any other commodity.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

The present position, then,

is that the Canadian National Railways own all the issued stock of Trans-Canada Air Lines, so that really it is a one hundred per cent government enterprise. Under these circumstances would it not be possible for Trans-Canada Air Lines to set up a school or schools for the training of pilots and the ground staffs that are required for Canadian flying. The training of men for the air is being handled in a more or less haphazard fashion at the present time, and if Trans-Canada Air Lines is to be a government enterprise it might be a very good place for the government to give a lead. The future of Canada will depend to a large extent upon the progress we make in our air development, and there seems to be a need for improved training facilities.

Has the minister given consideration to having Trans-Canada Air Lines set up a proper school or schools for the training of men to operate our airways in the future.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I think we have as fine a school for that purpose, located in Winnipeg and operated by Trans-Canada Air Lines, as can be found anywhere on this continent. The present staff, numbering some ninety-nine, have all been trained there; the pilots, the ground crews and the radio operators have all received training at that school. When we started the enterprise we had the option of making arrangements with one or two United States schools, which do similar work, under which we could send our men over there. We decided to bring the necessary talent here, and to carry out the training in Canada, and for some months this work has been proceeding in Winnipeg.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

These men are being trained only for trans-Canada airways, are they not?

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Yes.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

My thought was that we might train them for the other air lines as well. Many feeder lines will be operated by private companies, and I think we could raise the standard of flying and ground work right across Canada if the trans-Canada airways undertook to operate a training school for all young men wishing to fly or to learn ground work regardless of whether or not they were to be absorbed by Trans-Canada Air Lines.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

The preliminary training is given by the aviation schools, of which there are some twenty-four in Canada. These schools are competent to give a transport

licence. The trans-Canada airways will not accept a man who has not had a minimum of a thousand hours flying. There is a gap between the two types of training which must be filled in in some way. Whether it should be the duty of Trans-Canada Air Lines to discharge that duty, or whether the work of the flying clubs could be concentrated in one or two advanced schools, in order to bridge the gap, is now being studied by our department. I think perhaps the latter method is the better one. However, the department is aware of the fact that there is a gap which must be filled in the education of the commercial pilot, and I think that within the next year some progress will be made towards filling that gap.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

I suppose all these men who are trained could also be used for defence purposes, if required? Is the training of a type which would be of value in a defence force?

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Undoubtedly advanced training for inter-urban flying is different from the training for ordinary transport flying, or freighting. But up to a point the training is parallel. I suppose only those interested in inter-urban flying would go in for the advanced course having to do with instrument flying.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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CON

Howard Charles Green

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GREEN:

But the minister will give serious consideration to developing schools in connection with the Trans-Canada Air Lines?

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

We have been and are still giving consideration to it.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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CON

Norman James Macdonald Lockhart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LOCKHART:

The minister has said that there is a blank between the present education of these men and possible future requirements. I know that education facilities come entirely within the jurisdiction of the provinces, but in our technical schools there has been some thought of laying the groundwork in connection with flying. The opinion has been given that in five years there will be a dearth of trained men who are air-minded. Have there been any negotiations between provincial departments and the federal government with respect to the necessity of laying the ground-work in technical schools of the provinces, or has any thought been given to the matter.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

We have had inquiries from a number of technical schools as to the type of training required by a person who wishes to enter into aviation. In each case we have given as much information as we could. The department has furnished engine parts to permit instruction being given in the mechanics

Trans-Canada Air Lines

of the aeroplane. I believe however that training in flying is better handled by the federal government, which has jurisdiction over all matters affecting the air. It has the fields and facilities to carry out that training, and while we look to the technical schools to give the ground-work of education, the actual training in flying should be done under the direction of the federal government.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES AUTHORITY FOR EXTENSION BEYOND THE CONFINES OF CANADA
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March 1, 1938