February 11, 1938

PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK


On the order for motions:


CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Right Hon. R. B. BENNETT (Leader of the Opposition):

On a question of privilege affecting the rights of members of this house I desire, Mr. Speaker, to direct your attention to the telegram that was placed on Hansard yesterday purporting to be sent by the minister of agriculture of the province of Saskatchewan.

In so far as the telegram deals with a contradiction of statements made in this house I do not propose to raise any question at the moment except to say that it may be questioned. On that phase of it which reflects upon one of the members of this house and casts aspersions upon his conduct and his bona tides, I desire to raise a question which I shall not discuss at this time in view of public business, but I ask you, sir, to deal with the matter, and I direct the attention of the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) to the language of the closing part of the telegram. I think the minister himself will agree that it is not a document that should be placed upon the record; for no one outside of this house has a right, without contravening the privileges of a member of this house, to cast aspersions and reflections upon his honesty or his conduct. However much a man not a member of this house may desire that a misstatement be corrected, the moment he engages in argument in the message he transmits through a member of this house he contravenes the rules of parliament and one of the privileges of this house and of every member of it.

I shall discuss the matter at a more convenient time, but I desire to direct your attention, Mr. Speaker, and the attention of the Prime Minister, to the matter, which is one of very serious moment as far as the privileges of the members of this house are concerned.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Hon. J. G. GARDINER (Minister of Agriculture) :

I should like to point out through you, Mr. Speaker, that in his speech the other night the hon. member for Qu'Appelle (Mr. Perley), called attention to the fact that a certain man who was known to myself as a minister in this government had been given some special consideration by the government of the province of Saskatchewan. For

Privilege-Mr. Bennett

that reason I think I was justified in calling attention on the floor of this house to the representations made, and to have those representations put in a clear light before this house. That is all the telegram does which was read to the house yesterday.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

That is not what it does.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

In order to confirm what I have just stated I would say that if my right hon. friend will look at page 290 of Hansard and read the reference which was made to Mr. Laidlaw he will find that the hon. member declared that Mr. Laidlaw on account of his financial position was not entitled to any consideration at that time. In reply to that statement the telegram merely says that the hon. member himself together with Mr. Laidlaw made application to the government for consideration in relation to seed in the spring of last year. I think that is an answer in full to the suggestion that this gentleman was not entitled to consideration after he had lost another crop. The facts are very clear, as outlined both in the remarks of the hon. member and in the telegrams replying to those remarks.

As to whether it is within the rules of the house to have the reply placed upon Hansard in the manner in which it was done yesterday, that is another matter upon which you, Mr. Speaker, will rule. So far as the facts are concerned, nothing has been produced to indicate that they are other than as I have stated them to the house at this time.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I did not read the telegram, but it was the latter part of it with which I was dealing, not with any question as between the minister and any member of this house or any person outside of this house. I was dealing solely with the privileges of this house and of every member of this parliament. I did not read the telegram because I did not wish to take the time at that moment, but I shall have to do so now:

. . . Laidlaw until recently tenant of Perley but declines to continue. Municipality advanced seed and supplies to value of four hundred eighty-two dollars fifty-four cents in 1937, being about half amount desired by tenant and landlord. Termination of tenancy by Laidlaw may partly explain criticism. Understand tenancy has been unprofitable throughout to Laidlaw which reduced him to circumstances necessitating aid in shipment of live stock out.

That is the part to which objection is taken and which I think should be dealt with by you, Mr. Speaker, for the future guidance of this house.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Well, Mr. Speaker, the section to which I referred a moment ago,

fMr. Gardiner.l

which was not read but which is answered by the part of the telegram now referred to, is as follows:

Another man I know well shipped 100 head to Gladstone, Manitoba, where they are being wintered. This man is well known to the Minister of Agriculture because he was a contractor who from the government which held office prior to 1929-

That is the government of which I then was the head.

-had received many contracts. He built bridges north of Wolseley across the Qu'Appelle river, and built an overhead bridge at Roche Percee.

That, by the way, happens to be in the constituency I now represent in this house.

He went out to British Columbia this year, in company with his two sons and a nephew, and made money. One son told me that his father had drawn $12 a day all summer and that the boys had drawn $7. That man had one hundred and ninety head of cattle, and did not sacrifice any of them. They shipped three carloads, with free freight, to Gladstone, Manitoba, and are wintering at that point.

Then I put in a remark which was intended to be in the form of a question. It is not so reported, and I would suggest that it might be put in that form.

Mr. Gardiner: We paid the freight?

Mr. Perley: Yes, you paid the freight; I

am glad the minister mentioned that. That man was no more entitled to free freight than the man in the moon. He had been a contractor all his years; he had built the bridge at Roche Percee.

Again referring to my own seat.

He had one hundred and ninety head of cattle, three cars of which he had shipped to market, and certainly was not entitled to free freight on the others.

I wish to point out that the facts are these: This man does not now and to my knowledge never did live within the one hundred per cent drought area. He lived outside the one hundred per cent drought area but within the area from which cattle are shipped free of freight for anyone who wants to ship cattle out and bring them back again to their present location next spring. The references to myself, and to a section of my constituency that has no relation to the matter under discussion, apparently are made with certain intentions, and I think I am within my rights in this house in drawing the attention of the house to the fact and to indicate that they do not apply to the discussion in any way whatever. I would suggest that the latter part of the telegram in question is a complete reply, in that it indicates that the gentleman who is being discussed, although known to myself, previous to July

Diversion of Water

last was a tenant on lands owned by the hon. member who was discussing this matter in the house.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

He so stated in his speech.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

No, the speech does not state that clearly.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

It makes it clear to me.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

This is what the speech states:

Two of my tenants shipped stock there; one shipped six hundred sheep and the other shipped all his stock, including horses and cattle. All are wintering there.

Then notice this:

Another man I know-

And it is the other man he knows who is the gentleman named Laidlaw who, previous to July, was a tenant on these lands and who asked for and received seed grain under the government guarantees last spring. The argument of the Minister of Agriculture of Saskatchewan is that if he was a person entitled to receive seed and other supplies one spring, having lost another crop surely he was still entitled to receive consideration from the government of the province of Saskatchewan. That is all that the telegrams indicate.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

That does not deal with the question at issue, Mr. Speaker.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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LIB

Walter Edward Foster (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

Does any other hon.

member wish to speak to the matter?

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BENNETT QUESTION OF RULES ARISING OUT OF DISCUSSION OF FREIGHT ASSISTANCE ON LIVE STOCK
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ELECTRIC POWER

TRANSFER TO PARLIAMENT OF CONTROL OF EXPORT EXCEPT IN INTERNATIONAL EMERGENCY


Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister) moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 21, to amend the Electricity and Fluid Exportation Act. He said: While this bill in form constitutes a general amendment and recasting of the Electricity and Fluid Exportation Act which has not heretofore been amended since it was passed in 1907, in substance its object is to transfer to parliament itself the power at present legally vested in the governor in council to control the export of electrical power from this country. The bill does not affect the licences to export power which have already been granted, nor does it take from the governor in council the right to renew or cancel the existing licences. It does provide that no further exports of power may be made unless they are specifically authorized by a private act of parliament. An exception to this rule is made only in the event of a temporary international emergency and only for the duration of such an emergency. Motion agreed to. Mr. MACKENZIE KING moved the first reading of the bill.


CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Right Hon. R. B. BENNETT (Leader of the Opposition):

This is not a debatable

motion, but the right hon. gentleman used the words "private bill." I should hardly think it could be designated a private bill. It would be a public bill of a private nature, but in any event it would be a public bill that granted the right to export electricity from this country, I should think.

Topic:   ELECTRIC POWER
Subtopic:   TRANSFER TO PARLIAMENT OF CONTROL OF EXPORT EXCEPT IN INTERNATIONAL EMERGENCY
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

The point

raised is a matter of terminology.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

Topic:   ELECTRIC POWER
Subtopic:   TRANSFER TO PARLIAMENT OF CONTROL OF EXPORT EXCEPT IN INTERNATIONAL EMERGENCY
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DIVERSION OF WATER

February 11, 1938