February 19, 1937

LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

Mostly for new equipment.

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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CON

John Ritchie MacNicol

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacNICOL:

What was the deficit in the radio branch for 1936-37?

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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CON

John Ritchie MacNicol

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacNICOL:

No attempt is made to operate it on a paying basis?

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

No.

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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?

Thomas Miller Bell

Mr. COLD WELL:

Is there any revenue?

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver:) Yes. Last year, 1935-36, the revenue was $23,905 as compared with franked service amounting to $38,296.

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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Item agreed to. Militia services- Cadet services, $140,000.


CON

John Ritchie MacNicol

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacNICOL:

For what reason has the minister cut down the appropriation for cadet services? I may be wrong, but my recollection is that last year the house applauded the increase in the appropriation. I, for one, am strongly in accord with the purpose of this vote. During the last half-dozen or more years there has been an agitation in the country in opposition to cadet training. In my time I have had something to do with cadet training, and my observation has always been that youth benefited very materially by such training. During the last few years someone has occasionally got on the school board with apparently sufficient influence to break up the system of cadet training, and this has always struck me as a retrograde step. A short time ago I attended a meeting of sea cadets under the control of the department and was greatly impressed with the way in which these young men conducted themselves, their civility, and the manner in which they responded to discipline. All along the line I was very much pleased with the results obtained from the money spent by the department, in that respect at any rate, in the training of sea cadets. Here the minister is going back on that, cutting the vote from $150,000 to $140,000. I Should like to have seen him increase it so that more young men could have the benefit of cadet training, particularly in these times when so many are standing on the street corners learning nothing, whereas if there were facilities to brain them as they should be trained the country would benefit all along the line. I would ask the minister how it is he has cut this vote by $10,000.

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

I am very glad indeed to answer. The service rendered has not been interfered with in the least. Last year it was found that on the basis on which the grants were made the amounts voted were not all expended. The same service can be given this year for the same number of cadets for a less amount of money. At the end of the school year, August 31, 1936, the number of cadets enrolled was 82,727 as compared with 82,373 at the close of the previous year. In other words, there was actually an increase of nearly 400 in the number of cadets, although several units were closed. As my bon. friend knows, this is based upon a grant of one dollar for senior cadets only, between the ages of fifteen and eighteen. No allowances are made in respect of junior cadets, that is boys between twelve and fifteen. They are, of course, given as

Supply-Defence-Cadets

much assistance as possible, but no grant is intended for the instructors in connection with junior cadets. The grant is one dollar a cadet for those who qualify at the end of the year and pass the examination for fitness, and the instructors get t)he grant according to the number trained and qualified.

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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CON

Simon Fraser Tolmie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TOLMIE:

How many of these are in British Columbia?

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

I shall give the number for all the provinces for the last two years. These are for the school year ending August 31:

1935 1936

Nova Scotia

1,973 1,789Prince Edward Island.. .. 836 860New Brunswick

2,309 2,130Quebec

49,216 50,193Ontario

21.861 22,029Manitoba

1,914 1,607Saskatchewan

1,290 1,243Alberta

1,315 1,118British Columbia

1,659 1,758

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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CON

Thomas Langton Church

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHURCH:

This cadet item is reduced by $10,000. I do not see why this item is selected for a cut almost every year. One only has to look at what is happening in the cities and towns of Canada to-day where these cadet services have been practically abolished. If you are going to have ia skeleton militia you must have some complementary organization, namely the cadet services. The cadets are not a military organization as has been contended by some pacifists in this country. The pacifists are doing the country a disservice. The first duty of a citizen is to protect the country. The pacifists are willing to take an oath of allegiance to His Majesty the King, and they pray for the king; they are something like the Christian Scientists who refuse to use the means the Lord has given. I am opposed to any reduction in this item. I have been a member of the board of education in Toronto and I have seen the excellent results of this training. It teaches manliness, courtesy, respect for authority, and many qualities needed for success in life. The board of education branch of the London county council started out on a pacifist career a few years ago, but now they have gone back to the former condition. They refused to allow the Royal Air Force to have anything to do with the cadet services but they found as a result that education was not advanced at all.

In the big cities of this country where many parents are on relief and have no money the children are running the streets. An investigation has been going on for three weeks regarding the Guelph reformatory, where there are one hundred and fifteen children sixteen years of age and one hundred and seventy aged seventeen. The evidence of some of the

teachers was that had these children had cadet training, many of them would not have been roaming the streets, travelling around in motor cars and so on. Cadet training is necessary for and complementary to the work of the board of education. The London county council in England are putting back cadet training, not for war purposes but because of its physical benefits. It was started in Canada away back in the lacrosse days when the cadets played lacrosse and other outdoor games. That has all been abolished and now they are out on the streets smoking cigarettes. The reports of the Ontario government and the police department show that, where they have not cadet training, a large number of these young people from fourteen to eighteen years of age get into trouble. The relation of cause and effect is to be seen in this. The cadet services were a blessing to the school boards of Ontario, and to the poorer boys who were not able to join in sporting events because they had no money. I know some families who have been in Toronto many years and never had anyone in trouble. I got three letters to-day from families in my constituency having boys fifteen, sixteen and seventeen years of age in this institution at Guelph, and one told me that if they had had the cadet service and some physical training they would not have got into trouble. The Y.M.C.A. do the work to some extent, but the boys have to pay fees there.

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

It is not the government that stops the cadet training; it is the municipalities.

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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CON

Thomas Langton Church

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHURCH:

It is a mistake. The school boards are starved enough these days. The provinces have been allowed by this parliament to take the income tax; over $2,600,000 has been taken from Toronto and $800,000 given back, and it will be necessary to collect the difference by adding to the real estate taxes. This country which has been spending nearly $400,000,000 surely can spend a few dollars to give the school boards throughout the country a little grant towards these services which I say are necessary and which many leaders in public life say teach qualities which make for success in life.

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

The government cannot force the schools to undertake cadet training.

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

I was going to point out to the hon. member just what the leader of the opposition has said. Not one of these units has been disbanded by the government. They are disbanded at the request of school boards not desirous of having the service. I can assure the hon. members that in the next year the same service will

Questions

be provided as has been provided in the last several years. There will be no diminution of service unless desired by the school board concerned.

Mr. Chairman, as there seems to be some disposition to discuss the item further, I would ask that it stand, and would move that the committee report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Item stands.

Progress reported.

On motion of Mr. Dunning the house adjourned at 10.24 p.m.

Monday, February 22, 1937

Topic:   SUPPLY-NATIONAL DEFENCE CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON AMENDMENT TO MOTION OP MINISTER OP FINANCE
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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February 19, 1937