February 9, 1937

CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

I should like to bring to the attention of the minister a matter which I think ought to have been brought to the attention of the house sooner. On the previous day the agriculture estimates were considered in the house the evening papers carried the announcement that the whole Department of Agriculture was to be reorganized and that there were to be three main branches: production, research and marketing. It came as rather a surprise to me and, I think, to other hon. members, that this had not been mentioned before the agriculture estimates were considered.

I should like first of all to commend the action of the minister for choosing the men he did to head these branches. Doctor Archibald and Mr. Rothwell are well known to agriculture generally throughout the dominion. I do not think there is a better authority on agricultural matters in Canada to-day than Doctor Archibald. The administration of his department in the past has been very excellent indeed. The same may be said for Mr. Rothwell. He has made himself deservedly popular with the live stock men of this country. I am glad the minister has seen fit to retain the services of these two men in the department.

It is difficult to understand how the estimates are to be allocated after this reorganization takes place. Take, for instance, this branch of dairying. We have the production activities, the research branch and the marketing branch. Just how this vote is to be divided among the different branches is difficult for me to understand. Again, as far as the marketing branch is concerned, if I am correctly informed or if my ideas are correct, marketing within the province is solely within the jurisdiction of the province. The supervision of marketing outside the country or interprovincial marketing has largely been, as I understand the matter, the work of the Department of Trade and Commerce. I think the minister would be wise, in view of the reorganization, to make a statement as to how these estimates are to be divided, so that we may discuss them more intelligently.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

I had intended to discuss fully the matters referred to upon the vote for marketing, which is the last vote, on page 19. If hon. members will permit of it being done at that time it would be preferable, I think, to starting in to explain the matter at five minutes to eleven o'clock.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

Then I think the minister should let this item stand until we have a chance to hear his explanation.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Well, it really has very little to do with this item. The marketing item covers the whole matter under consideration; anything that is to be taken out of the different branches and put under marketing will be dealt with under the marketing vote.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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CON

Simon Fraser Tolmie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TOLMIE:

I should like to ask the minister how many dairy cows there are in Canada?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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LIB
CON

Simon Fraser Tolmie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TOLMIE:

I am afraid the minister is out by many millions. How many of them are under test?

Elections and Franchise

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

About one and one-third per cent of the cows in Canada are under test.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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CON

Simon Fraser Tolmie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TOLMIE:

Do those figures apply to pure bred cattle? How many pure breds are there in Canada? They are all registered.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

That includes all the pure bred cattle. I am not in a position to break down the figures in order to give the pure breds and the others.

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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

Will the minister explain why the vote for dairying is so small in proportion to some of the other votes for agriculture? Last year I gave the house a few figures showing the relative importance of dairying as a branch of agriculture. I do not wish to be understood as finding any fault with the size of the votes allotted 'to the other branches, but it would seem to me that, in view of the relative importance of dairying as compared with other branches of agriculture, its vote is quite small. The value of animals and animal products from 1932 to 1936 was approximately S636.000.000; of our poultry and egg products, $327,000,000; of our dairy produce, $1,169,000,000, and of our wheat, $900,000,000. When we consider the size of the vote in comparison with the importance of these different branches of agriculture, the amount of money that is derived from them and their value to the industry itself, it seems to me that a very small amount is being expended for daily purposes. It is not necessary for me to go into percentages. I think the amount of the dairy vote is something like four per cent of the total vote for agriculture. The vote for live stock amounts to about twenty per cent. If one turns to the estimates of the Department of Trade and Commerce, one will find nearly $2,000,000 is allocated for the administration of the Canada Grain Act alone, which has largely to do with the sale and marketing of wheat.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

The grain pays for it.

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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

I know, but after all, that amount of money is expended on marketing and-

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

Not by the government.

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CON
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

The farmers pay for that themselves, direct.

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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

At least there is a vote in the Department of Trade and Commerce for that amount.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

And a revenue of the same amount.

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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

My argument is that if it is necessary to expend large amounts to market our wheat successfully, which has a value considerably smaller than our dairy products, the amount allowed here is too small, and I think the minister might very well explain to the committee why this vote is so small.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

The vote for dairying has been increased this year by $18,000. It was increased last year. I might draw to the attention of the committee the fact that the subsidies paid for cold storage are an assistance to dairying.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE
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February 9, 1937