February 3, 1937

LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

Well, I took the words down as the hon. member was speaking.

530 COMMONS

Pacific Coast Shipping-Mr. Reid

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I did not suggest that they were incapable of doing the duties. I suggested that under the conditions they would not be willing to be employed to do them.

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

I doubt that very much. Of course I have heard the statement made that on ships travelling to the far east oriental or Lascar crews must be employed. It may interest the house to know that British passenger ships sailing to the far east have only some 11 per cent of Lascars in the crews, that the crews as a whole are practically British, and even the deck crews fifty-fifty. I have the figures from the British Board of Trade Journal, and if I had time I should like to place them on Hansard. The figures are given for passenger ships of the same size operating over the same routes to the far east from Great Britain, and their crews are 11 per cent Lascars and 89 per cent British.

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I travelled on an East Indian ship on which the only white people were the chief officers and the steward. Every other person I saw was a Lascar or East Indian.

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

The reason the committee recommended that Canadian deck-hands be employed was this: It was felt that perhaps it would be unfair at the start to ask Canadians to work among Chinamen, but it was felt that one particular part of the crew might be replaced by Canadians.

In my opening remarks I pointed out that practically every country employed its own nationals. It may interest the house to learn what was done just the other week by France. France has passed an order providing that all salmon going to that country from Canada must be carried in French bottoms. They are looking after not only their seamen but their shipping; they are now demanding that goods imported from Canada shall be carried in French ships. If you investigate every country, with the single exception of Canada you will find that some provision or another has been made for the employment of its own nationals. On the Australian line operating from Vancouver to the orient, which is in keen competition with the United States lines, practically all the employees are British subjects. \

I should like to point out to the house that it is not only the wages which are paid that determine whether or not the service shall succeed. At the British shipping conference last fall it was stated that the Matson line, which is in competition with the Canada-Australian line, is superior to the Australian line for two reasons; first, the speed of their vessels and, second, the courtesy of their

employees. For these reasons that line is taking trade away from Canadian ships; yet when the committee was in session we were told by the Canadian Pacific that Chinamen were so courteous that Americans and others were very glad to travel in our vessels in preference to others. This shipping report, which was laid on the table just the other day, states that the United States line is taking a great deal of trade away from the Canadian ships because of the speed of their vessels and the courtesy of their employees.

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

May I ask who asserts it is the courtesy of the employees of the Matson line that is responsible for getting trade away from the Canada-Australian line?

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

I have the 1935 report of the shipping committee with regard to the possibilities of a British passenger and cargo service between western Canada and Australia and New Zealand. On page 19 of that report I read:

The important fact to be borne in mind is that the Matson line has won its present position not by cutting rates but by superiority of amenities and speed.

I take that "superiority of amenities" to mean superior courtesy.

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I just wanted to know if the hon. gentleman was putting his own construction on it, because if there is one thing that is not so, it is that the courtesy shown on those ships is greater than that shown on ships of the Canadian-Australian line. The word "amenities" is not open to the construction the hon. gentleman has placed upon it. I do not desire to discuss the point now; I shall do so later.

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

I am sorry I have not time to develop that a little more. Neither my right hon. friend nor I was at the conference, so while my opinion may not carry quite as much weight as his, I suppose I am still entitled to it.

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Quite so, but "amenities" in that case has nothing to do with courtesy.

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

I see it is getting near six o'clock. As I have said, I am not against the granting of some subsidies, and I realize that subsidy agreements have been signed. The Minister of Labour (Mr. Rogers) has made the suggestion that I withdraw this resolution, and he has said that the matter will be taken up by a committee consisting of one representative from the Department of Labour and perhaps one from the Department of Trade and Commerce, who will investigate at first hand the situation in pacific coast

Business oj the House-Precedence

ports. I think I would be inclined to accept that suggestion, on the distinct understanding that the matter will be fully investigated and that the bald statement of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company that there are no men available, together with their statement that they prefer Chinamen to Canadians, will be seriously looked into. And I hope that committee will not overlook the strong stand taken by that company against the employment of our own people. Surely it is a laudable thing to attempt to secure employment for our own Canadian people, and I make no apology to anyone for my stand on behalf of our Canadian nationals in preference to orientals from Hong Kong or from other countries.

I wish I had time to develop further the argument introduced by the hon. member for St. Lawrence-St. George (Mr. Cahan) that these orientals are British subjects. When I previously introduced this question it was held by the then government of which he was a member that those orientals from Hong Kong were British subjects. I seriously dispute that view; I claim they are orientals and Chinamen. However, I am prepared to accept the statement of the Minister of Labour with the understanding that this matter will be gone into fully and seriously and a report made as to the real reasons why the request of parliament can not be carried out.

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink
LIB

William Alexander Fraser

Liberal

Mr. W. A. FRASER (Northumberland, Ont.):

May I suggest that in considering

this problem the minister take full cognizance of the competition of United States and Japanese subsidized lines, and secure complete information as to the position of Canada in transpacific shipping and the desirability of maintaining transpacific routes with subsidized ships, as referred to by the member for New Westminster (Mr. Reid).'

Motion withdrawn.

Topic:   PACIFIC COAST SHIPPING
Subtopic:   PROPOSED CESSATION OF SUBSIDY TO CANADIAN
Sub-subtopic:   PACIFIC PENDING REPLACEMENT OF ORIENTALS BY WHITE SEAMEN
Permalink

At six o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order. Thursday, February 4, 1937


February 3, 1937