July 3, 1935

CANADIAN FARM LOAN BOARD-P. A. ANGERS

LIB

Mr. DUBOIS:

Liberal

1. Has Mr. P. A. Angers, notary public, superintendent of the provincial bureau of the Canadian Farm Loan Board, been dismissed?

2. If so, what was the date of his dismissal?

3. How long was Mr. Angers superintendent of the provincial bureau of the Canadian Farm Loan Board, at Quebec?

4. What salary did he receive as superintendent of such bureau?

5. For what reasons was he dismissed?

6. Who replaced him?

7. What is the date of appointment of his successor ?

8. On what date did Mr. Angers' successor assume office as superintendent of the provincial bureau of the Canadian Farm Loan Board, at Quebec?

9. What salary does he receive?

10. Who was in charge of the provincial bureau of the Canadian Farm Loan Board, at Quebec, during the interval between Mr. Angers' dismissal and the assumption of office by his successor?

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN BOARD-P. A. ANGERS
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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

Return tabled herewith.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN BOARD-P. A. ANGERS
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DUTIES ON JAPANESE GOODS


On the orders of the day:


LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Hon. IAN MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

Mr. Speaker, a few days ago I

asked a question of the Prime Minister with respect to trade between Japan and Canada. He promised to make a statement to the house, and I am wondering if it could be done to-day.

Topic:   DUTIES ON JAPANESE GOODS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Right Hon. R. B. BENNETT (Prime Minister) :

Mr. Speaker, the new Japanese Minister has taken office and we are exchanging views with respect to certain phases of the situation. I am afraid I cannot make any fuller statement at the moment than that I made the other day. If I am in a position to add anything to what I have said, I shall do so gladly before the house rises.

Topic:   DUTIES ON JAPANESE GOODS
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LOAN TO NEWFOUNDLAND


On the orders of the day: Mr. JEAN ERANQO-IS POULIOT (Tem-isoouata): Mr. Speaker, may I ask the Minister of Finance (Mr. Rhodes) if he will answer to-morrow my question of yesterday respecting the guarantee 'to Newfoundland.


CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. E. N. RHODES (Minister of Finance):

Yes; I regret I had not an opportunity to peruse Hansard this morning but I shall be happy to submit an answer to-morrow.

Topic:   LOAN TO NEWFOUNDLAND
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ALCOHOL TAX


On the orders of the day:


LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. JEAN FRANCOIS POULIOT (Temis-couata):

Mr. Speaker, may I ask the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. Matthews) if question No. 20 will be answered to-morrow?

Topic:   ALCOHOL TAX
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CON

Robert Charles Matthews (Minister of National Revenue)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. R. C. MATTHEWS (Minister of National Revenue):

I shall try to have it

done.

Topic:   ALCOHOL TAX
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MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN


The house resumed from Thursday, June 27, consideration in committee of Bill No. 120, for the purpose of establishing in Canada a system of long-term mortgage credit for fishermen-Mr. Stirling-Mr. Smith (Cumberland) in the chair. On section 6-Conditions for loans.


LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

Mr. Chairman, where will we get the money for this purpose? During the campaign of 1930 the right hon. Prime Minister said there would be reforms in taxation. When the last government was in power more taxation was possible. In 1933, according to press reports, the Prime Minister stated that Canada was near the limit of her credit, and in the following year, 1934 after imposing heavy taxation he said that Canada had reached the limit of her credit. Therefore I say that is ample proof that the government has exhausted Canada's credit. That is all I have to say. I do not see how they can get more money.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
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CON

Finlay MacDonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacDONALD (Cape Breton):

I find myself more or less in sympathy with the objects behind the bill, and particularly is that true of hon. members representing shore fishermen. Hon. members from constituencies adjoining fishing grounds must be well aware of the desperate condition under which fishermen are living. But those of us who know the particular requirements of fishermen cannot, I fear, get very much hope from any of the provisions in the bill. Our fishermen do

Mortgage Credits jor Fishermen

not require any large amount of money. All that the boat fisherman needs is a small amount, possibly S50, S75 or $100 at the beginning of the fishing season so that' he may fit out his boat, gear and other equipment. They require, further, a ready market for their product.

In a cumbersome way this bill seeks to deal with a very simple question. Of course there is no doubt that under the provisions of the bill a large amount of money could be raised, but it is when we come to the distribution of the money among the fishermen that I see great difficulty so far as possible benefits are concerned. Evidently the bill is drafted along the lines of the farm loan legislation. Those of us who have studied the matter do not believe that the farm loan board is adapted to provide money for fishermen and the machinery set up by that board cannot be used to their advantage.

I repeat that this bill provides only a very cumbersome method of financing, and the fishermen I represent are not in a position to avail themselves of its provisions. Any fisherman who has security sufficient to enable him to comply with the provisions of the act would not have to avail himself of those provisions. He could secure any financial assistance he required either through the banks or through private agencies. Then, there is no provision in the bill for marketing. My view is that if by more simple means we can attain the objects sought by the fishermen there is no necessity for the cumbersome method provided in this measure. The ordinary fisherman wants fifty or seventy-five or a hundred dollars in the spring, and that is all he wants. That enables him to secure his boat, fix up his nets and get his plant. There should also be some provision for insurance against the loss of his little plant, which everybody knows is quite apt to happen because of the hazardous nature of the fisherman's calling. We used to have a very simple method of assisting farmers in the purchase of their seed in the spring. An amount of money was provided and placed in the hands of a responsible party who advanced seventy-five or one hundred dollars to the farmer, taking his notes, and repayment being made when the harvest came in the fall. There is no reason why such a procedure could not be adopted in dealing with the fishermen, and particularly the boat fishermen of whom I speak. I do not wish to delay the house. All I want to do is to go on record as expressing with some reluctance my own view which is that this bill will not be of any assistance to the fishermen I have the honour to represent in this house.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
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LIB

James Layton Ralston

Liberal

Mr. RALSTON:

I rise to say just a word or two in regard to this bill. I do not think I can add very much to what the hon. gentleman who has just sat down (Mr. MacDonald, Cape Breton) has said. I have been disappointed in the provisions of the bill in so far as they appear to be cumbersome. The particular feature which has given me concern is that this bill makes as a sine qua non, a condition precedent to the fisherman getting the benefit of the loan, the possession of real estate. Now among the fishermen with whom I am acquainted, generally speaking if a man has a house and lot free of any encumbrances so that he can give a first mortgage on it, he probably will not find very much difficulty in getting whatever credit is necessary in order to purchase a boat or to purchase gear. It seems to me that the bill misses entirely the essential, that the security should 'be in connection with the property which is being purchased, in connection with the facilities that are being required.

I thoroughly agree with the desirability for something of this kind. I have brought to the attention of the house and the attention of the minister on more than one occasion the necessities of the fishermen, particularly those who have lost their gear on account of unusual storms. These men find themselves with earning capacity, with willingness to work, with ability to work, but without capital and in some instances they are young men who have no property of any kind, while in other cases they may be married men whose property is mortgaged in so far as it can be mortgaged for previous obligations. That is why we have to damn this bill with faint praise. That is why I think the hon. member for Cape Breton South has found it necessary to take the stand he did. I am going to support this bill. I will do anything I can to heLp make it a success, but I feel that it puts a fundamental barrier in the way of a fisherman getting the assistance that he needs when it required that in order to get the benefit of the law he mu^t have real estate, and real estate free so that he can give a first mortgage upon it.

I agree with my hon. friend that the amount the fisherman requires is not large. My hon. friend mentioned seventy-five or one hundred dollars, but I have known fishermen to want three or four hundred dollars. The boat builder will give a man some credit if he has property, but if the government will not trust him unless he has property the boat builder can hardly be expected to do so. It is the same with regard to gear lost on account of storms. We have had terrible storms on the south coast of Nova Scotia in the last year

Mortgage Credits jor Fishermen

with a tremendous loss of gear, leaving fishermen simply strapped, and there is no possibility of insurance such as a man would have in connection with a house or store or factory if destroyed by fire. These men are left absolutely to shift for themselves, and the only way they can get a living is by going shares in somebody else's boat. Naturally they can make very much more themselves by fishing independently, and naturally it means the production of fish is cut off to that extent.

I do feel that the bill lacks the assistance which should be provided for a most deserving class. I cannot forbear saying that in view of what is being done along some other lines I feel that a bill more generous in its terms, more easily applicable, more simple in its administration, and one which would impose less requirements on the fishermen,, could have been devised than the one before us.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
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CON

Grote Stirling (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of National Defence)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STIRLING:

Mr. Chairman, as I indicated on a previous occasion the difficulties connected with granting loans to the participants in any industry are great. The government has given a great deal of consideration to this endeavour. Is it desirable or not that loans of small amounts should be granted to fishermen? It is decided that it is desirable to do so within certain limits. The question immediately arises, what shall the security be? The government has decided that it will go so far as to offer fishermen provisions similar to those which have been granted for some years to the farmer, but that is as far as the government thinks it wise to go.

It has been suggested that the machinery which would have to be made use of is cumbersome. Well, the machinery has been set up. It has been in use for the farmers for a considerable number of years. It has been somewhat simplified by the amending bill of this year, and it is thought that with that machinery, with a chief executive officer in each province now who will represent the views of the Canadian farm loan board sitting at Ottawa, with the assistance of a loan advisory committee in the locality whose chairman shall be that chief executive officer, and associated with them shall be those from the locality and consequently knowledgeable in this matter, it should not be cumbersome in its operation. But this is as far as the government proposes to go.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
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July 3, 1935