July 2, 1935

CON

Donald Matheson Sutherland (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

It is the intention

of -the government to appoint a commission to be known as the veterans' assistance commission, but the commission will not be named immediately. It is intended to leave this until the autumn when it is expected that the men to be appointed will be freer to serve.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

The minister will notice that on page 16 of the report there are some 16 recommendations. The minister on- the previous item referred to recommendation No. 16, but I should like to know if he can allocate this amount to the various recommendations?

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CON

Donald Matheson Sutherland (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

Paragraph 5 on page 16 deals with the basic rate. It is the intention to increase the basic rate for a single man from $15 to $18.75. This rate will be increased according to the size of family up to the point where in the case of a man with a wife and six children the rate will be increased from $42.50 to $51. It is expected that to effect that the sum of $180,000 will be required.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

Does

that mean that the recommendations are being more or less carried out?

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CON

Donald Matheson Sutherland (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

Yes.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

How will the remainder of the $500,000 be expended?

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CON

Donald Matheson Sutherland (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

In connection with

paragraph 6, page 16, it is expected to implement (b). If a member of the veteran's family is employed only the earnings of such member in excess of $40 shall be considered

Supply-War Veterans' Allowances

as income. It is not a substantial amount involved. Under (c), cash earnings up to $10 shall not be considered income. That is not new. Under (d), with respect to the months erf December and January, cash earnings that also will ibe implemented. Altogether it is not a large sum, only $7,600.

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LIB
CON

Donald Matheson Sutherland (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

Yes. Then on page 17, paragraph (8), with regard to the year in which dependent children come off pension, it is the intention that the age limit of dependent children shall be extended beyond that set forth in the Pension Act when deemed necessary. That is not taken in absolutely jvery case, but the department will have a good deal of leeway in dealing with it and it is expected it will require about $35,000. On page 17, paragraph (9), it is proposed to take all reasonable steps to obviate the possibility of unemployed pensioners who are home owners losing their homes through non-payment of mortgage interest or taxes where the owner has a reasonable equity in the property. It is proposed to allow in lieu of rental an amount to cover the current mortgage interest and taxes, and it is estimated that the amount will be about $20,000. Under paragraph (11) on page 17, with regard to clothing, it is intended to provide clothing for issue at the expense of the department to meet the increasing demand. During the first two or three years of this government the need for slothing had not become so acute; everyone had enough. It has been gradually increasing, however, so that more and more is necessary. We have been issuing a considerable amount and it will increase, and it is expected that this will take about $210,000.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

More or

less following the recommendations of the paragraph?

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CON

Donald Matheson Sutherland (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

Yes. Under paragraph (12), which is part of the same thing, clothing, provision is also made. Altogether the amount will be $452,500-that is, the items I have mentioned-leaving what might be called a contingency amount of $47,500 which will be used to implement any particular cases in addition to any of the amounts I have indicated.

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Item agreed to. War veterans' allowances-further amount required, $300,000.


LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

How much of this amount is to be used in the ordinary work of the committee under the existing [Mr. Sutherland.!

legislation, and how much will be used in connection with the work that will be necessary if the minister accepts the recommendations of the Hyndman commission?

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CON

Donald Matheson Sutherland (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

The commission's

recommendation in that regard will be found on page 18, paragraph 13:

That the war veterans' allowance committee be requested to arrange for periodical visitation of various centres throughout Canada, by one or more members of the committee! in order personally to interview applicants for war veterans' allowance, who are under sixty years of age and who cannot be classified as permanently unemployable from a medical standpoint, but appear to be so from an industrial standpoint, in order to determine whether or not such applicants shall be awarded war veterans' allowance.

It will be noted that the Hyndman commission does not recommend legislation to change the age, but I have discussed this matter very thoroughly with Mr. Woods, chairman of the war veterans' allowance committee, and he is perfectly prepared, as is the department, to have this implemented in full as far as it goes, and the committee are prepared to accept that suggestion and move around the country more. They realize that it is possible that if they come in closer contact there may be some extra cases that will come under the act. It is impossible to segregate the items. They have gone into the matter pretty carefully and it is estimated that this amount of $300,000 will be used to take care of cases that automatically come in from the class of over sixty, and it will afford a rather more liberal interpretation in connection with the under sixty.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

Will the committee have considerable discretion in regard to those, who are industrially unemployable?

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CON

Donald Matheson Sutherland (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

Yes; they practically have control under the act and there has never been any interference with them. They have a free hand.

'Mr. GRAY: I think we should commend

the minister, first, on the appointment of the Hyndman commission, which has done excellent wort and has brought down a splendid report, and secondly, because he has implemented the report as far as he has been able to do so at the present session.

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Item agreed to.


DEPARTMENT OP AGRICULTURE


Natural Products Marketing Act-further amount required, $1,000,000.


LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

This is a very large item. At Maisonneuve during the last campaign, when the Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett)

spoke about his future plans, a lady asked him how he would pay for it all, and he replied, by taxation. That is how we shall have to pay for tihe operations of the marketing act. In the evening Journal of January 27, 1933, there appeared this large headline:

Tax Burden of Country Near Limit,

Says Bennett

And in the Montreal Gazette of Friday, February 9, 1934, another headline:

Credit of Canada Has Reached Limit, Premier Declares

There is another word which was said by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Rhodes) in April, 1933, according to an article published by Mr. Olivar Asselin in Le Canada on April 24, 1933. The minister is quoted as having declared to a delegation of caterers: " The country itself is bankrupt." I wonder if a bankrupt country can spare a million dollars for a marketing act which is no good. But, sir, there is more-I will ask the hon. gentlemen to be so kind as to listen to what is going on, because if what I say does not interest them it may instruct them. The following information was given to the house

Year ended Sept. 1, 1930 Calendar year 1931.. .. Calendar year 1932.. .. Calendar year 1933.. .. Calendar year 1934.. ..

2, 1935 4161

Supply-Agriculture-Marketing Act

by the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. Matthews) on April 3 of this year as reported on page 2375 of Hansard, and by the Minister of Finance on April 10 as reported on page 2595.

The total revenue of the Department of National Revenue for the twelve months ended September 1, 1930, the last year of the Mackenzie King government, was $369,194,448. For the succeeding years it showed decreases according to the figures 'below:

Calendar

year

1931 $278,842,453

1932' 253,453,619

19331 262,778,442

1934 303,471,091

There is a decrease each year in the gross revenue of the country since this government came into power as compared with the last year of the Mackenzie King government.

Now, sir, there are three classes of revenue collected by the Department of National Revenue, that from customs, that from excise tax and that from income tax. The respective proceeds since 1930 are shown by the following figures:

Customs Excise and

revenue Decrease income tax$176,380,895 $

$192,813,552120,192,964 56,187,930 158,649,48886,260,527 90,120,367 187,193,09169,042,222 107,338,672 193,736,21982,882,922 93,487,972 220,588,168

It means, sir, that when the revenue from customs decreases owing to the shrinkage in external trade there is an increase of taxation by means of the excise tax and the income tax. The private individual under the worst conditions has to suffer the burden of taxation on account of the decrease of trade owing to high tariff policies. I shall deal further with that later on. But now let me give you a summary of the taxation imposed by this government when the Prime Minister tried to implement the promises he made during the last campaign. Let us take first the year 1931. Sessional paper No. 277F, reference No. 214, April 1, 1935, shows:

1. Sales tax increase from 1 per cent to 4

per cent. ,

Answer by Department of National Revenue: "Unable to state increase on sales tax collections."

2. Postage, one cent more on all letters.

Answer by Post Office Department: "Figures

as to the revenue derived from the increase of 1 cent on letter postage are not available as letter postage is not segregated from other postal revenue in the department's accounting records."

3. Half cent increase per pound postage on newspapers and periodicals.

Until February 28, 1935, increase in revenue: $952,251. .

4. Two cent tax stamp on all cheques irrespective of the amount.

Answer by the Department of National Revenue: "Information not available, as tax on sale of stamps for all purposes kept in one account, and the use of postage stamps is permitted for the same purpose."

5. Two per cent increase of income tax on corporations.

Answer by Department of National Revenue: "Information not available."

6. Special excise tax of one per cent imposed on all goods imported into Canada.

Answer by Department of National Revenue: "June 2, 1931, to March 31, 1932: $4,982,216.83. Unable to give up to date fiures as rate changed-April 7, 1932."

7. One per cent tax on the net premiums received by insurance companies in Canada.

Answer by Department of Insurance: $2,273,034.86, including a small amount for a 2 per cent tax paid by certain mutual companies and exchanges, to February 28, 1935, inclusive.

8. Fifteen per cent tax on Canadian property owners who have insured their property with British or foreign companies which are not licensed in Canada.

4162 COMMONS

Supply-Agriculture-Marketing Act

Answer by Department of Insurance: "None, as this tax was never imposed."

9. Increased duties on a number of agricultural and fruit products including live hogs, fresh meats, bacon and hams, shell eggs, cheese, hops, hay, seeds, canned fruit*, vegetables, and oranges.

Detail of revenue given by Department of National Revenue.

10. Increased duties on automobiles priced at more than $1,200.

Fiscal year 1932

$354,807Fiscal year 1933

77,850Fiscal year 1934

55,108April 1, 1934, to F'eb. 28, 1935.. 49.36111. Increases on certain manufactured steel products.

a Answer by Department of National Revenue: "It is not possible to answer this question in its present form. Amount of duty collected under any particular item can be given, but not returns due to tariff changes."

12. Specific duty of 15 per cent per pound on magazines and periodicals.

Answer given by Department of National

Revenue.

13. Increased duty on wood products, including furniture, veneers, golf clubs, tennis racquets, frames and baseball bats.

Answer given by Department of National

Revenue.

14. Increases on linen and pure silk fabrics, leather, watches and clocks, tea and other goods.

Answer given by Department of National

Revenue. The tax on tea has averaged $1,500,000 per fiscal year.

15. Imposition of excise duties upon the

products of a manufacturer who used the customs tariff rates to increase prices to the consumer.

"This question is not clearly understood, but if it refers to section 17 of the customs tariff, its provisions have not been invoked." (Answer by Department of National Revenue).

16. For the forfeiture of goods imported from a country not a signatory to the Treaty of Versailles.

Answer by the Department of National Revenue: "Nil."

Sir, there were sixteen items for which taxation was provided in the 1931 budget speech in order to make both ends meet on account of the decrease in customs revenue resulting from the reduction in external' trade following the high tariff legislation. The year 1932 was not any brighter; that was the year of the Ottawa agreements. Here are the tax increases passed during the session of 1932, with the revenue derived therefrom; I read from sessional paper No. 277, reference No. 216, of March 25, 1935.

1. Sales tax increase from 4 per cent to 6 per cent. Answer by Department of National Revenue: "Unable to state increase in sales tax."

2. Increase by 2 per cent of excise tax on all goods imported into Canada. Answer by Department of National Revenue: "Special 3 per cent excise tax collection from April 1, 1932, to February 28, 1935-$41,530,871.47."

[Mr. Pouliot.j

3. Reduction of personal income tax exemption for those with dependents, from $3,000 to $2,400, and those without dependents, from $1,500 to $1,200.

4. Discontinuation of 20 per cent reduction until then allowed from tax payable under established schedule of rates.

5. Five per cent surcharge on the amount of tax payable, imposed on all taxpayers, personal and corporate, with net incomes in excess of $5,000.

6. Increase of corporation rate to 11 per cent. Answer by Department of National Revenue: 3, 4, 5 and 6: "Information not available inasmuch as while the tax changes and exemptions took place it was not possible to record statistically how much extra revenue was obtained by these changes, for the simple reason that the extra revenue in greater or lesser amounts was also affected by general business conditions as to profits and losses, likewise increases and decreases in salaries, professional incomes, etc."

That was the answer of the Department of National Revenue in the official return tabled in this house. Now I quote from sessional paper No. 277G, reference No. 217, April 1, 1935:

7. Tax of one per cent on premiums received by insurance companies. Answer by Department of Insurance: "$2,273,034.86 including a small amount for a 2 per cent tax paid by certain mutual companies and exchanges, to February 28, 1935, inclusive."

8. Tax of 15 per cent on gross premiums. Answer by Department of Insurance: "None, as there was no 15 per cent tax provided for under the Special War Revenue Act. 1932."

9. Tax increase from 2 cents to 3 cents on cheques, money orders, and on promissory notes, bills of exchange, etc., on amounts up to $100 and 6 cents over $100. Answer by Department of National Revenue: "Information not available, as tax on sale of stamps for all purposes kept in one account, and the use of postage stamps is permitted for the same purpose."

Answer by the Post Office Department for money orders: $906,405.33. "Separate figures are not available for the extra revenue derived as a result of the increase from two to three cents."

10. Five per cent tax placed on telegrams, cables and radio messages and long distance telephone calls. Answer by Department of National Revenue: "From May 2, 1932, to February 28, 1935, $2,737,810.83."

11. Ten per cent tax on railway sleeping

car berths, with a minimum of 25 cents and 10 cents on chair car tickets. Answer by Department of National Revenue: "From

May 2, 1932, to February 28, 1935,

These, sir, are the figures for 1931 and 1932. The most unpopular tax imposed on this country by this government was the tax on sugar.

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July 2, 1935