Mr. MUNN:

Coming back to Stanley park, and the question asked by the hon. member for Vancouver Centre (Mr. Mackenzie), did I understand the minister to say that they had salvaged $40,000 worth of material in clearing up the park?

Mr. MURPHY:

No, I did not intend to say that. What I said was that there was a great amount of debris which it had been estimated would produce about $40,000 if sold.

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

That is in addition to the $25,000?

Mr. MURPHY:

Yes, which perhaps as far as we are concerned should be spent in clearing the park of debris and carrying on other operations there

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Mr. MUNN:

Has there been an amount set aside from this vote for that purpose?

Mr. MURPHY:

No, as I explained, an order in council was passed on May 10, empowering the Minister of Labour to enter into an agreement with the government of British Columbia. Under the terms of that agreement an amount not exceeding $25,000 would be granted by the dominion government to assist the provincial government, together with the city of Vancouver, in removing the debris and so forth.

"Mr. MUNN: It is the property of the

dominion, although under lease to the city, so why should they ask the province to contribute? The condition of Stanley park today is a very serious matter. I doubt very much if anything like half that amount of money mentioned will be actually salvaged, because most of the fallen timber should be cut into wood and delivered around town to people who require fuel. In Stanley park to-day certain sections are cleared up, but the park is still a very bad fire hazard. If fire happened to start on the west side with a westerly wind blowing nothing would save the park, all the fire equipment in Vancouver would be useless. Worse than that, the west end of Vancouver is the oldest part and the buildings there are chiefly wooden buildings. If fire ever got started with a westerly wind it would sweep all through the west end of Vancouver. Last session in this house I asked the government to take note of Stanley park. It is their property, it is under lease to the city but the city is not able to take care of it. There should be some work done there. Twenty-five thousand dollars is only a trifle, there should be at least $100,000. Every bit of dead and down timber should be taken out. The dead timber is a breeding ground for beetles that destroy the green timber. Once it is cleaned up there will be practically no trouble or expense in taking care of Stanley park. This is a serious matter. This government during 1932 and 1933 built a retaining wall around the park, and that helped, but this is even more urgent. The minister has to my knowledge an application from the parks board, independently of the provincial government, and I ask him now if it is not possible to make a special grant at once out of this vote.

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

Referring to this order in council of May 10, authorizing the Minister of Labour to enter into an agreement with the provincial government, by which this government is to spend $25,000,

does that entail the expenditure of a similar amount by the provincial government before this government would make their contribution?

Mr. MURPHY:

No, there is no stipulation of that nature. But I understand that the province and the city of Vancouver prior to the passage of this order in council appropriated certain money for the purpose.

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

That is

correct.

Mr. MURPHY:

There is no stipulation

in the order in council that such a clause as the hon. member mentioned should be incorporated.

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

Has any

action been taken by the Minister of Labour under that order in council?

Mr. GORDON:

The money is available

at any time.

Mr. HOWDEN:

Following the remarks of the hon. member for West Edmonton (Mr. Stewart), in 1930, early in this depression, two very substantial bridges were built between Winnipeg and St. Boniface, one over the Red river and the other over the Assini-boine. The money that was expended for those bridges would have given employment not merely to hundreds of men but to thousands. As a matter of fact employment was given to only a mere handful, because the excavation and the pouring of the cement was done by machinery. To-day in Winnipeg the federal government is erecting a large building, and the excavation is being done by these giant excavating machines.

Mr. MURPHY:

Pardon me, is the hon.

member correct in that statement?

Mr. HOWDEN:

I have seen machines working in the basement.

Mr. MURPHY:

I do not wish to contradict the hon. member, 'but I am sure he would not wish to make a statement that is not correct. I visited Winnipeg not more than ten days or two weeks ago and I was informed at that time that the excavation for the caissons and so on is being carried on by hand labour.

Mr. HOWDEN:

If that is so I am very glad. I did not pay very close attention but I saw one of those excavating machines in the basement, I do not know the technical name of it. I understand there are only some seventy-eight men working there, and I should think they could put five hundred men in there with shovels. Certainly I have been informed that seventy-eight is the largest number that has been employed at one time

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in that basement. I may be mistaken concerning that, but I am not at all mistaken in stating that the work on the Norwood and Assiniboine bridges was done by machines. In driving past the site of the new government building one does not get much of a view because the space is boarded up, but I was sure I saw an excavating machine in there the other day. I shall be glad to know if I was mistaken; certainly this work should not be done by machines but by men with shovels and wheelbarrows.

Mr. MURPHY:

My time was limited and I did not visit the work in question, although I intended to, but I shall be very much surprised if I am wrong. In talking the matter over with the contractor he informed me that hand labour was being employed in excavating for the foundations of that building, and the architect also conveyed the same information. I have no doubt the hon. member did see certain machines there at work, but this work is being done by contract and the number of men employed would be decided practically entirely by the contractor having regard to the number he could employ to advantage in a given time. That is a matter with which he would have to deal. May I repeat that I am quite certain the excavation is being done principally by hand labour.

Mr. HOWDEN:

I have just been informed by the member sitting beside me that he visited the work while passing through Winnipeg and that it is being performed by excavators and trucks.

Mr. MURPHY:

Trucks are being used; that

is correct.