May 23, 1935

LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

There is nothing to show what the quota shall be, and Mr. Contractor might very well say to the minister, "Sure; I have my quota. I have a man I picked up, an unemployed ex-service man, and he is my quota. Now the others can go hang as far as I am concerned."

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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CON

Martin James Maloney

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MALONEY:

What would you say?

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Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

If it were in the law and I were a contractor I would follow the law. But if it were laid down by the minister and my hon. friends opposite and if the provision were "as far as practicable and consistent with reasonable efficiency and economy" I would say, "I will do what I darned well please." That is what I would say if the law as suggested by the minister were enforced. But if the suggestion of my hon. friend from West Lambton were enforced as the law, then I would be mighty careful before refusing applications from any of the classes listed here as being those to whom one should give a preference.

Then in clause (c) it is provided that in no case shall discrimination be made in the employment of any person by reasons of political affiliation, race or religious views. My hon. friend from West Lambton has just told us that this clause was taken from order

in council P.C. 2043, passed by this government on Tuesday, August IS, 1931, which reads:

All agreements with provincial and municipal authorities shall contain a provision to the effect that all persons employed on the works or undertakings referred to herein shall be residents of Canada and so far as practicable of the locality dn which the work is being performed, and in no case shall discrimination be made or permitted in the employment of or in the granting of direct relief to any British subjects by reason of their political affiliation, race or religious views.

The agreement entered into on October 26, 1931, I will also quote. It is the form for the agreement with the province of Quebec. I understand that it is taken from the agreement between that province and the federal government dealing with unemployment relief and the works to be carried out under the unemployment relief law of 1931. It states:

Those most in need should first derive benefit from the grants which should be apportioned with impartiality, and in no case shall discrimination be made or permitted in the employment of or in the granting of direct relief to any British subjects by reason of their political affiliation, race or religious views.

And:

Under no consideration should political favouritism be considered on unemployment relief works, from which only the most needy shall derive benefit.

Now it is in order that the express intentions of the government in this respect shall be carried out that my hon. friend has moved this amendment; and so that there may be as little discussion as .possible with the contractors and others he adds that it shall be the duty of the minister concerned to see that the provisions of this section are complied with and in respect of works or undertakings done under contract he shall be entitled to cancel the contract forthwith in the event of any breach of such provisions by the contractor. That is clear and specific. It imposes on the contractor the obligation to carry out the provisions of this statute under pain of forfeiture. I think that would be the intention of every member of this house. I hope it is the intention of the minister in moving his amendment to the amendment, and if that is so, why then does he not accept the amendment moved from this side of the house? I am sure the minister has not in mind the refusal of it simply because the suggestion comes from us. Knowing him as I do, I am quite sure he is willing to accept any reasonable suggestion no matter from what quarter of the house it may come. I submit to him therefore that there is no

Public Works Program

reason why this amendment should not be taken as proposed. If he insists, I am sure my hon. friend from Lambton would be quite willing to add a clause to provide a preference to single men with dependents, and perhaps that compromise could be arrived at between the minister and himself. But were I in his place I would certainly not accept the subamendment, which has far less force, which is merely a pious wish, and which will not in any way affect the contractors, if they wish to employ men in defiance of the desire of parliament and, I am sure, of the desire of the people of Canada.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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UFA

Donald MacBeth Kennedy

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. KENNEDY (Peace River):

How can the contractor tell which one of a number of applicants for a job is the neediest?

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

He can very easily apply to the municipality and ask to have a person sent to him who is on the relief roll. Under the present practice, as I understand it, he applies to the party organization and asks which of the persons on their roll would be best employed. Since this is a relief work, I suggest that the municipal relief roll would be the best source of information, rather than the political party list of probable and potential party voters.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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UFA

William Irvine

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. IRVINE:

The employment office in the province.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

So far as my province is concerned, I anticipate an objection which might be raised by the other side. If I were to suggest that, it would be said that perhaps the employment office of my province was just as bad as the party political organization of my hon. friends. I suggest that the contractors go to the municipality which is really looking after the persons who are on relief; that would be the fairest thing to do.

As for ex-soldiers, there are ex-soldier organizations throughout the whole of Canada, and it would be very easy for the contractors to apply to the Canadian Legion, the Army and Navy Veterans' Association or to any other of the half dozen ex-service men's organizations throughout the dominion. They would have no difficulty in finding men, and if they did have the slightest difficulty, then as far as I am concerned, there is no objection to their making a requisition or request to the member of parliament representing the government. He is probably closer in touch with conditions in his constituency than anybody else, and he could very readily guide the contractor in the choice of men whom he was to take, but I think the contractor should exhaust the other possibilities before he approaches the member.

92582-193}

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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CON

Finlay MacDonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. MacDonald, Cape Breton):

As to the point of order raised by the hon. member for Quebec South (Mr. Power), under standing order 48, paragraph 399 on page 126 of Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, I find the following:

A motion may be amended: (a) by leaving out certain words; (b) by leaving out certain words in order to insert other words; (c) by inserting or adding other words.

On that ground I think the amendment is in order. When we come to the other, the only difficulty I find with regard to the amendment to the amendment is the way in which it is framed. It is not framed as an amendment to the amendment; it is framed as an amendment to section 2. I am driven to the position under paragraph 401 which reads:

When several amendments are offered at the same place in a clause, it is within the chairman's discretion to decide which amendment he will receive. An amendment proposing to omit certain words in order to insert other words is given precedence over an amendment proposing simply to omit the same words.

I think under those circumstances it is my duty to decide which amendment I shall accept, and feeling that way I shall accept the amendment offered by the Minister of Public Works.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

It would be omitting certain words of the bill itself.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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CON

Finlay MacDonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. MacDonald, Cape Breton):

They are both amendments to

section 2 of the bill.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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LIB

Ross Wilfred Gray

Liberal

Mr. GRAY:

As I understood it, after objection to the form of the subamendment had been raised by the hon. member for Quebec South (Mr. Power) the minister changed the amendment. I think he will agree with me in that.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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CON

Finlay MacDonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. MacDonald, Cape Breton):

It has not reached me.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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LIB

Ross Wilfred Gray

Liberal

Mr. GRAY:

Am I correct in saying that the minister .moved that all the words after the word "that" be struck out and the following substituted therefor?

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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CON

Hugh Alexander Stewart (Minister of Public Works)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEWART (Leeds):

I said that if the amendment was out of order, that might be done.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
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LIB

Ross Wilfred Gray

Liberal

Mr. GRAY:

While that may not have reached the chairman in writing, certainly it was understood by the committee that the minister after a suggestion by the Solicitor General (Mr. Dupre) moved that this be done, and the whole basis of the discussion of the hon. member for Quebec South (Mr. Power)

Public Works Program

was that the Minister of Public Works had moved an amendment to the amendment. I do not think anybody understood anything different.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

According to what the chairman has just said, if he accepts the amendment moved by the minister it will read "That all the words after 'that' be struck out."

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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CON

Finlay MacDonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. MacDonald, Cape Breton):

It is an amendment to section 2. That is the only amendment 'before the chair.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

My impression is the same as that of the hon. member for West Lambton (Mr. Gray). I heard the minister say that in order that his motion should be in order he would have it amended to read "that all the words after the word, 'that' be struck out."

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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CON

Finlay MacDonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. MacDonald, Cape Breton):

That has not yet come before the chair.

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

Do I understand that the chairman so far overrides all the rules of priority that he takes an amendment moved on this the 23rd day of May in preference to an amendment moved over a month ago, placed on Hansard and in the hands of the chairman on April 17?

Topic:   PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Subtopic:   WORKS, UNDERTAKINGS AND GUARANTEE OP RAIDWAY EQUIPMENT SECURITIES TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
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May 23, 1935