April 15, 1935

LIB

Charles A. Stewart

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton) :

While in some respects I agree with what the Minister of Finance has said respecting the amendments, because I have gone over them carefully, I hardly agree-

Mr. 'SPEAKER: May I interrupt the

hon. member? I think we might as well decide before the discussion is allowed to continue whether we are to proceed in the ordinary way as laid down by the rules of the house. There is a motion before the house upon which hon. members have the right to speak once-it should be well understood that we are not in committee. If it is the wish of the house to proceed in some other manner, hon. members need only intimate what they consider desirable in that regard and I shall endeavour to carry out their wishes. As it stands at the present time, however, I shall have to ask that we proceed in the ordinary manner.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I was going to ask whether my question of the Minister of Finance deprived me of the right to speak.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

I would say, no. I think it was quite well understood that the right of the hon. member to speak was not thereby exhausted.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I am quite content to take my seat, if I am not in order, but what I was proceeding to say was that I am not very greatly concerned with the amendments submitted by the senate to the bilk In some respects however I may not agree with the minister. I do believe that the proposed amendment would make lending more difficult than was anticipated in the bill which passed this chamber and went to the senate. It is true they have provided in one respect that the mortgage having prior rights over any enactment by the legislature will prevail. I am not going to say whether or not that is wise. I do know that legislation passed by some of the western provinces has been held up as indicating how the securing of money on a mortgage or by borrowing is more difficult. But the general interference with the bill as sent to the senate to my mind makes some of the main clauses very doubtful. I fear that when we

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come to providing regulations for the lending of money we will find a great many difficulties which were not contemplated in the measure as it passed this chamber. I was hoping the minister might take exception to one or two further clauses, but I shall not go into that matter. He has decided that upon two only shall he. ask for a conference and ascertain whether or not the difficulties can be straightened out. I too agree that it is necessary to secure passage of the bill by the house in order that the machinery may be set in order for the purpose of lending. That must be done if it is to be of any value in the present year, and for that reason I shall offer no further objections.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

I was going to suggest to the minister that perhaps the eleven o'clock rule could be extended. Undoubtedly there are other amendments of importance which should be considered. This legislation is practically new. There is the amendment to section 6, and the consideration of the words " provided that in arriving at such actual value, the value of the buildings shall be considered only to the extent to which the same add to the actual value " and so on. In British Columbia this will affect those who have buildings for their chickens. Then there is the clause under which the board may take certain action if a man sells his place. In view of the fact that this is practically a new bill I would ask that we be given further time for consideration. It is unfair to ask us to pass it now.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

I would say it is not altogether fair to ministers who for months have been in their offices from early morning until late in the. evening. However I shall not insist upon my personal views, if the house desires to proceed a little longer.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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LIB

James Layton Ralston

Liberal

Mr. RALSTON:

In view of the special circumstances I do suggest that we adopt a special procedure for this bill. As I understand it, in the ordinary course of events the minister moves the adoption of senate amendments. On this particular occasion he would necessarily have to make an extended explanation of all the sections. In order to facilitate discussion would it not be possible for the minister, with the unanimous consent of the house, to withdraw his motion, move the bouse into committee of the whole to consider the Senate amendments, and take the matter up as the first order of business for to-morrow?

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

If it is the wish of the house to give unanimous consent I am content that we go into committee, but I would point out to my hon. friend that we are running this

Housing Policy-Final Report

danger: the ministry must assume the responsibility for motions made with respect to Senate amendments to a government bill. If the hon. member is suggesting for one moment that b>

going into committee we can pick and choose with respect to these amendments, and deal with them as though we were dealing with a bill of our own, ab initio, I think he will agree he has a mistaken viewpoint. That cannot be done, because the government must accept responsibility for any motions it may make with respect to amendments of its own bills. I am not standing upon the order of my going, speaking as a member of the government, but I do say that that is the fact so far as procedure is concerned. If in the meantime it is thought wise by unanimous consent to-morrow to go into committee, I shall be quite content.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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LIB

James Layton Ralston

Liberal

Mr. RALSTON:

May I be permitted to say a word? My 'reason for making the suggestion was not necessarily that we should differ from the senate amendments, or that the ministry might be relieved of the responsibility which the minister has expressed, but in order to afford to hon. members an opportunity to inform themselves as to the amendments they are passing. At least we would preserve our self-respect and not appear to be acting simply as rubber stamps without having read the amendments.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

My hon. friend will bear in mind that these amendments have been printed and available to hon. members since last Friday. The bill was held over so that hon. members might have an opportunity to study the amendments. However, it is now eleven o'clock. To-morrow we will bring this up as the first order of business, I take it, and if it is thought wise by unanimous consent to go into committee of the whole, I shall be quite content.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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CON

George Halsey Perley (Minister Without Portfolio)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE PERLEY:

So far as I am concerned I do not think we ought to alter the method by which we have dealt with senate amendments. Any proposed change of the rules of procedure in that regard is something we ought to debate at length and deal with very carefully. It seems to me that hon. members should be satisfied with the senate amendments. The Minister of Finance has gone into them carefully and made up his mind that with only two exceptions there is every reason why we should concur. The object we have in mind is to try to have the bill become law before adjournment in order that it may come into force.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

Will the bill be ready for distribution?

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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CON

George Halsey Perley (Minister Without Portfolio)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE PERLEY:

It will be ready for distribution.

On motion of Mr. Cahan the debate was adj ourned.

Topic:   CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION OP SENATE AMENDMENTS
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At eleven o'clock the house adjourned without question put, pursuant to standing order. Tuesday, April 16, 1935


April 15, 1935