March 14, 1935

CON

Onésime Gagnon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GAGNON:

Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer a few observations with respect to clause 10. I understand that this legislation is drafted to protect the workmen engaged in general industry, but of course I understand that parliament must make a distinction between Industry with a capital "I" and the small industry that is operated in the rural districts. I happen to represent a farming constituency and I have received a few letters from some small sawmill owners who are very anxious to find out whether they will be subjected to this legislation. I understand that the [DOT] amendment which is now proposed is drafted in order to meet the exigencies of their situation and will probably afford them relief. I understand that the sawmill owners are carrying on very intermittent operations and that their work is seasonal. They have been working a few hours in a day and for only a few weeks in the year, and of course it would prove a hardship to them if they were subjected to this legislation. Therefore I would respectfully ask the minister whether in his view this amendment he is offering to the house would have the effect of affording relief to the small rural industries.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
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CON

George Gordon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GORDON:

Mr. Chairman, replying

to the question raised by the hon. member for Dorchester (Mr. Gagnon) with respect to the small sawmill owner and those other industrial activities which are intermittent and seasonal in their character, they are taken care of within the terms of section 10, and they are also provided for, of course, in the convention itself. Section 10 as at present drafted carries out in substance and in spirit article 6 of the convention, and those seasonal activities will be exempt from the operation of the act. Of necessity they would have to be. You cannot apply, so far as I can see, a horizontal law right across Canada without

Eight Hour Hay

making exceptions of industries such* as have been referred to by the hon. member for Dorchester.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
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IND

Angus MacInnis

Independent Labour

Mr. MacINNIS:

My objection to the section passing still stands. As the minister himself has asked that section 9 stand I cannot understand his objection to allowing this section to stand until we have an opportunity of studying the amendments. The section which is being substituted for the section in the bill is a long one and it is impossible to follow it simply by hearing it read once by the mover and once by the chairman. I think the hon. member for East Hamilton (Mr. Mitchell) has said that this section conforms exactly with article 6 of the convention. Section 10 as at present in the bill conforms exactly to article 6 of the convention. The section sets out that the competent authority may by regulation do certain things. It may make exceptions to be allowed in preparatory or complementary work. It may make regulations covering certain classes of workers whose work is essentially intermittent. It may also make regulations for temporary exceptions so that establishments may deal with exceptional cases of pressure of work. I think the section which it is intended to substitute goes much further than that. It will vest altogether too much power in the hands of the governor in council. As I said yesterday, if this law is within the competence of this parliament it is possible that it will supersede provincial legislation already on the statute books. I do not want to go back to British Columbia after having voted for legislation which is less stringent than the legislation already on the statute books of that province.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
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CON

George Gordon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GORDON:

If it will shorten the discussion, I can assure the hon. member that the further amendment which I intend to move as section 14 of the bill will take care of the provincial legislation.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
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IND

Angus MacInnis

Independent Labour

Mr. MacINNIS:

In view of the fact that all the amendments which have been offered so far have had the effect of weakening the bill, I do not feel greatly reassured to know that there are further amendments to be offered.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
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CON

George Gordon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GORDON:

The amendment I have just suggested is the very one the hon. member is advocating.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
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IND

Angus MacInnis

Independent Labour

Mr. MacINNIS:

I want the minister to understand that I am in favour of the legislation and I want to be able to vote for it when the final vote is taken. I do not want to have to refrain from voting because I do not understand the legislation. I believe that is what should be done by those who do not understand the bill. The minister has asked

that section 9 stand and I think he should allow this section to stand until such time as the other section is being finally dealt with.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
Permalink
CON

Richard Burpee Hanson (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

If section 10 as now drafted and clarified is compared with article 6 of the convention I am sure that every fair minded man will say that it conforms to the convention and does not depart from it in any particular.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
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IND

Angus MacInnis

Independent Labour

Mr. MacINNIS:

In what respect does article 6 differ from section 10 as it now apears in the bill?

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Subsection 2 of section 10 states that the regulations shall fix a maximum of additional hours. In studying that subsection I gave one interpretation; somebody else gave another and yesterday the hon. member for Gloucester (Mr. Yeniot) gave still another. We therefore decided that we would redraft this subsection in order to make it abundantly clear that it actually followed the wording of the convention. This was done for the purposes of clarification and not to limit or increase the scope of the section.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
Permalink
IND

Angus MacInnis

Independent Labour

Mr. MacINNIS:

I have article 6 before me and in my opinion section 10 as it now appears in the bill is exactly the same as that article.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
Permalink
CON

Richard Burpee Hanson (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Of course, we do not agree.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
Permalink
IND

Angus MacInnis

Independent Labour

Mr. MacINNIS:

We can read it and follow the wording. I should like my hon. friend to assure the committee that the amendment now proposed is no different from section 10 of the bill and article 6 of the convention.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
Permalink

Amendment agreed to. Section as amended agreed to.


CON

Richard Burpee Hanson (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I move

that Bill 21 be amended by inserting the following section immediately after clause 13 as clause 14:

Nothing in this act contained shall be construed as relieving any employer from any obligation under any provincial statute establishing shorter hours of work than those established under this act.

The intention is to take care of those cases where there is provincial legislation so that the hours of labour shall in no case be greater than those now in the provincial statutes when they provide for shorter hours than does this statute.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
Permalink

Amendment agreed to.


CON

Richard Burpee Hanson (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I move

that the bill be amended by inserting the

Weekly Day oj Rest

following new section immediately after clause 14 now carried by the committee as clause 15:

This act shall come into force three months after the date on which it is assented to.

The idea is to give industries and employers three months' time in which to adjust themselves to the conditions of the regulations.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

Is my hon.

friend not sure the idea is not to get past a general election before the validity of the act can be tested?

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
Permalink
CON

Richard Burpee Hanson (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I am quite sure.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

We had

exactly the same thing in the unemployment measure; its provision respecting payment is not to come into force for a few months. It will be the same I imagine when we come to the minimum wage and other social legislation.

Topic:   EIGHT HOUR DAY
Subtopic:   BILL TO LIMIT HOURS OF WORK IN INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS
Permalink

March 14, 1935