June 27, 1934

CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

The objection taken by the hon. member for Wetaskiwin (Mr. Irvine) is sound. Except by unanimous consent an amendment cannot be altered.

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LIB

Pierre-François Casgrain (Whip of the Liberal Party)

Liberal

Mr. CASGRAIN:

I move that the bill be not now read a third time but that it be referred back to the committee of the whole with instructions that they have power so to amend it as to provide that the Bank of Canada shall be government owned and controlled.

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

As I understand it, the unanimous consent of the house has not been given to the alteration or the withdrawal of

the amendment. The amendment and the subamendment are both still before the house and, consequently, the hon. member for Charlevoix-Saguenay (Mr. Casgrain) is not in order in moving a further amendment.

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LIB

Pierre-François Casgrain (Whip of the Liberal Party)

Liberal

Mr. CASGRAIN:

I understood that Your Honour had ruled them out of order.

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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker has not yet ruled upon the point of order. The point of order is that you cannot have three alternatives, nor twenty-three nor thirty-three on an amendment to the third reading of a bill. If it is good for three it is good for fifty-three, sixty-three or one hundred and three. I ask the Speaker to rule that the amendment and the subamendment are out of order and then we can proceed with the motion for the third reading of the bill.

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

On the objection taken by the Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett) to the form of the amendment, I consider the amendment out of order. I consider it out of order on the further ground that it is a motion entailing the expenditure of public money. Such a motion can be considered by the house only on a day later than it is introduced and it must be introduced by a cabinet minister. For these two reasons I rule the amendment and subamendment out of order.

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LIB

Pierre-François Casgrain (Whip of the Liberal Party)

Liberal

Mr. CASGRAIN:

I move, seconded by the hon. member for North Battleford (Mr. McIntosh) that the bill be not now read a third time but that it be referred back to the committee of the whole with instructions that they have power so to amend it as to provide that the Bank of Canada shall be government owned and controlled.

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

I rule that that amendment is out of order because, like the original amendment, it entails an expenditure of public money and is a violation of the terms of the British North America Act.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

In connection with the ruling of Your Honour with respect to this amendment entailing the expenditure of public money, I respectfully submit that Your Honour is not correct. I submit that this amendment does not entail the expenditure of one single cent of public money. If the Bank of Canada was already set up and was functioning, if the capital had been subscribed and we were transferring that capital from a private institution to the public domain, then Your Honour's point would be well taken. Up to the present we have not spent a single cent of public money and by setting up public ownership, as recommended in the amendment of the hon. member for

Bank of Canada-Point of Order

Charlevoix-Saguenay (Mr. Casgrain), we are not involving the expenditure of one single cent of public money. I submit in the strongest possible way that the amendment is in order and if Your Honour insists upon your ruling I shall be compelled to appeal.

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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

I have not the reference before me at the moment, but I suggest that this bill was preceded by a resolution which provided for the setting up of the bank. I submit that this amendment would fall within that resolution which has been submitted to the house and carried.

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

As hon. members have not given me any reasons to induce me to change my ruling, the ruling is that the amendment is out of order. The Speaker having ruled that the amendment moved by the hon. member for Charlevoix-Saguenay (Mr Casgrain) to the motion that Bill No. 19 be not read a third time is out of order, the hon. member appeals from that decision.

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IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

I was paired with the hon.

member for Nanaimo (Mr. Dickie). Had I voted, I would have voted against the Speaker's ruling.

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CON

Thomas Cantley

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CANTLEY:

I was paired with the

hon. member for Richelieu (Mr. Cardin). Had I voted, I would have voted to sustain the decision of the Speaker.

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UFA

Donald MacBeth Kennedy

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. KENNEDY (Peace River):

I was

paired with the hon. member for Three Rivers-St. Maurice (Mr. Bourgeois). Had I voted, I would have voted against the Speaker's ruling.

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LIB

Cairine Reay Wilson

Liberal

Mr. WILSON:

I was paired with the hon.

member for South Battleford (Mr. Vallance). Had I voted, I would have voted to sustain the Speaker's ruling.

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LIB

Frederick William Gershaw

Liberal

Mr. GERSHAW:

I was paired with the

hon. member for London (Mr. White). Had I voted, I would have voted against the Speaker's ruling.

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LIB

Paul Mercier

Liberal

Mr. MERCIER (St. Henri):

I was paired

with the hon. member for West Hamilton (Mr. Bell). Had I voted, I would have voted against the Speaker's ruling.

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LIB

George Washington McPhee

Liberal

Mr. McPHEE:

I was paired with the hon. member for Regina (Mr. Turnbull). Had I voted, I would have voted against the Speaker's ruling.

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LIB

Elie-Oscar Bertrand

Liberal

Mr. BERTRAND:

I was paired with the

hon. member for Toronto Northeast (Mr. Baker). Had I voted, I would have voted against the Speaker's ruling.

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CON

Franklin Smoke

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SMOKE:

I was paired with the hon.

member for Temiscouata (Mr. Pouliot). Had I voted, I would have voted to sustain the Speaker's ruling.

Bank oj Canada-Point oj Order

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June 27, 1934