June 13, 1934

LIB

William Duff

Liberal

Mr. DUFF:

I will not dispense. I am

taking my own time; if you do not like it, instead of sitting behind the curtain, get out. I have the floor, and I am going to take my own time in this committee. As a marine man interested in this legislation I have a perfect right to give my views. If my hon. friend has no views to give at least he might do me the courtesy of listening, as I always listen to him. I have not been able to go into all these clauses, but there are many that I think should be amended.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
LIB
LIB

William Duff

Liberal

Mr. DUFF:

I cannot tell what they are; it would take too long. There are at least twenty-five clauses with which I am not satisfied, at any rate. I say to the Prime Minister and the Minister of Marine that it is not fair to expect me, with my insufficient knowledge, to deal with this matter properly. In spite of the fact that this matter has been before another part of this parliament for two years; in spite of the fact that certain lawyers have endeavoured to draft it into proper shape, I say to the minister that it would be a mistake to put this act into force or carry any of these definitions or sections without giving the people of this country who are vitally interested in the matter a chance to state their views. Because I do not feel qualified to agree to any of these definitions or sections, so far as I am concerned I must sit here in my place and let somebody else carry them if they feel they should be put through as they now appear.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

The hon. member for New Westminster made some reference to the diffi-

Canada Shipping Act

culty of reopening a bill after it was passed, with which we are well acquainted. I am willing to bet him the price of a hat, however, that if we pass this bill now in its present form there need be no fear but that it will be reopened next year.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

I should like to say just a word in support of the contentions of my hon. friend from Antigonish-Guysborough (Mr. Duff). I have received certain representations from the Vancouver Chamber of Shipping in regard to many of the sections of this bill. I believe there are some eleven or twelve changes which they suggest in the particular section we are now considering, and I may add that in their communication they ask that the bill be well considered before being passed by the commons. They also ask that the other points in their memorandum, which are of equal importance, be considered before the bill is passed.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Did they see the final bill?

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

My information is that these representations were sent to the Senate last year, when bill J was before the Senate committee. I do not believe the representations were endorsed by that committee, but I am asked by a very important organization on the Pacific coast to raise these questions in committee. For instance, they want to add further definitions with regard to entry, goods, ship owner, warehouse, warehouseman, wharf, wharfinger, scow and so on. They want to re-define grain. They want to re-define the word "voyage" in section 3. They want me to discuss sections 116, 136, 156, 192, 209, 280, 366, 373, 528, 700, 721,723 and so on. I do not suggest that I agree with all the representations made by this organization but I am supporting the contention of my hon. friend from Antigonish-Guysborough that these representations have come to us from very important shipping organizations and federations throughout the country, and I believe at least they should receive the careful attention of this committee. In connection with this memorandum I should like to ask the minister if he would be good enough, if I leave the memorandum with him, to indicate the objections if any which he or the department may have to these representations as they affect the various sections of the bill. Possibly in that way we may be able to somewhat expedite the progress of the measure, and the representations which it is my duty to bring before the committee will have received full consideration.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU:

I have no objection to the suggestion of my hon. friend, but I should like to point out that some Vancouver associations were heard by the Senate committee. I believe some of the points raised by my hon. friend were brought forward there and discussed, and either accepted or refused.

I know the Vancouver Chamber of Shipping sent representations almost similar to those suggested by my hon. friend, and the Merchants' Service Guild of Vancouver was heard by that committee also, or forwarded a memorandum containing what they suggested by way of amendment to the bill. I have no objection to letting the sections referred to by my hon. friend stand when they are called, and in the meantime we might look over his memorandum and see what we can do under the circumstances.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

I should like to read to the minister what this organization say:

During the 1933 session a bill to consolidate and amend the Canada Shipping Act, known as Bill J, was introduced into the Senate. This was a very extensive piece of legislation and received full and careful study by shipping interests here who, after six months hard work, prepared a submission. .. . These were sent to the hon. Minister of Marine, but in the interim the bill was withdrawn from the Senate owing to slight defects of which you are probably quite aware. For this

reason our submissions never came before the Senate committee on banking and commerce to whom the bill has been remitted, as it had in the meantime been withdrawn.

Apparently the hon. Minister of Marine has not thought fit to take cognizance of our suggestions as we find that the bill as reintroduced, now known as Bill E, to the Senate, has been changed only in one or two very minor respects in conformity with our recommendations.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU:

I think this statement is not correct, because all tihe representations received in the Department of Marine either by myself or by my officials were put before the man who was in charge of the drafting of Bill J, and moreover all the memoranda were placed before the Senate committee for study. For that reason I do not think the statement in the document to which the hon. member has referred is fair to my department.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
LIB

William Duff

Liberal

Mr. DUFF:

Is the minister referring to the gentleman who gave the interview in Vancouver and said with regard to this bill he would simply use scissors and a paste p6t? Is that the person to whom he is referring?

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU:

I never saw the report about any interview of that kind.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
LIB
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

Yes, Mr. Griffin, who drew up the bill, said he came to Ottawa with paste and scissors, because after (he had been here and made the suggestions to the minister he wrote an article for t'he Province newspaper, a copy of which I have in my hand. But when the minister says only a few changes might occur, I must draw his attention to the fact that Mr. Griffin, the lawyer who was brought to Ottawa, said .that most of the bill was drawn on the basis of the old country act.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
LIB
CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU:

My hon. friend must agree that the bill now before the committee is not Bill J. It- has been entirely remodelled. As a matter of fact it was remodelled during the lecess, and produced before the Senate as Bill E in the present session. Bill E was studied by the committee on banking and commerce, and was remodelled to so great an extent that it had to be reprinted. For those reasons I say that we have not Bill J before us.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

On that point, I should like to refer to two clauses in the bill which I believe were in Bill J, are now in Bill E, and which are very important. I refer first to the measurement of ships, which, I understand, is laid down by the Board of Trade of England and which are in t'he present bill. Then .there is the matter of the definition of voyages, which I understand is the definition given by the Board of Trade, or contained in the British Shipping Act. I understand that in Bill E. we have adopted the words "home-trade voyage," the same as defined in the board of trade articles in Great Britain. Those subsections were in Bill J and are in t'he bill before us.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU:

If the hon. member has any objection to those sections we will let them stand and see what can be done about it.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

I do object and I am drawing the minister's attention to the fact that what you are stating to the committee is not exactly correct, and am indicating that much of that which is now before the house has been copied from the British Shipping Act or the Board of Trade articles, and so has an important bearing upon the shipping of this country.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink
CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

The hon. member said he had some objection to subsection 13. What is the objection; what is the trouble?

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Permalink

June 13, 1934