May 8, 1934

CON

Franklin White Turnbull

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TURNBULL:

All these orders of the local board, as I have stated already five times, must be approved by the governor in council, and the local board does not make orders except to approve of them.

So far as the producers and consumers are concerned I think it is agreed among us all that in times of depression the price of primary products falls away further than does the price of secondary products, that there is in times of depression a greater spread between the prices of primary and secondary products, and the extent of that spread contributes very largely to the depression. Now, in order to get rid of depression I think governments should apply themselves to narrowing as much as possible the spread between the low price of primary products and the relatively higher prices of secondary products, although the prices of both are low. As you narrow the spread you restore the balance between secondary and primary products, and as you restore that balance you help to bring about a normal use of purchasing

power and the resumption of normal operations. Things are out of gear at the moment because the price of the primary product is lower in comparison with the price of the secondary product than it is in normal times.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
LIB

Edward James Young

Liberal

Mr. YOUNG:

But this bill will not help that.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
CON

Franklin White Turnbull

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TURNBULL:

I am not so sure of that. If this bill does raise the price of primary products it helps to narrow that spread. But if as the hon. member for Weybum suggests this bill will not raise the price of primary products, why the holler about the consumer?

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
LIB

Edward James Young

Liberal

Mr. YOUNG:

I said it would not narrow the spread.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
CON

Franklin White Turnbull

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TURNBULL:

I hope that the leader of the opposition is now in agreement with me that the general interest is taken care of by the governor in council.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I am very far from being in agreement with my hon. friend on that particular phase. May I say to him that I think it is important that the house should realize that this measure goes very much farther than simply dealing with agricultural products. I for one believe that the design back of the measure relates quite as much to the application of its provisions later on to commodities other than agricultural products as it does to the position of the agricultural producer at the present time.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
CON

William Gordon Ernst

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ERNST:

May I say, I hope so.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I submit that this committee should consider every possible use that could be made of this measure. If I may, I would like to illustrate one of the many ways in which this measure may react so far as producers themselves are concerned. As the Minister of Agriculture pointed out this evening, the term "natural product" has not been given the wide interpretation which it has in this bill without some reason on the part of the ministry. If the ministry had in mind only the interests of the farmers, they would have brought in a bill confined to the agricultural industry and to the producers in the agricultural industry. Here is the definition of natural product:

"Natural product" means any product of agriculture or of the forest, sea, lake or river, and any article of food or drink wholly or partly manufactured or derived from any such product;

The other day I cited a number of articles which might be manufactured from these primary products. In fact all manufactures

Marketing Act

are nothing more than primary products processed on a few stages. The scope of this measure is broad enough to take in practically most of the necessaries that are manufactured in the country as well as those that are produced. I see my hon. friend shaking his head, but there is in the interpretation clause of the bill the definition of a natural product.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
UFA

Alfred Speakman

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. SPEAKMAN:

Articles of food or drink.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

Anything in that line; that covers most everything that people eat or drink.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
CON

William Gordon Ernst

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ERNST:

Oh, no.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

It covers

articles of food or drink; it includes everything that can be eaten or drunk. That is apart altogether from the primary products of agriculture. Also our attention has been directed almost exclusively to these local boards but the bill states that the governor in council-I think this is prdbably the main feature of the measure-may restrict the importation into Canada of any natural product which enters Canada in competition with a regulated product. The governor in council may say that any natural product shall not be exported from Canada without licence. Has the committee stopped to consider the effect of that? Apart from all these other powers we have been discussing, it means that the governor in council may by order in council restrict the importation or exportation of different classes of commodities into or out of the country. For the last day or two I have been directing attention to dispatches which have appeared in the press to the effect that so far as the 'British parliament and the dominions are concerned there is to be an effort made to restrict trade within the British empire. We have a good many instances in this parliament of legislation already enacted whereby it is made clear that as far as this government in Ottawa is concerned it intends to see that the channels of trade are kept as exclusively as possible within the British empire. In other words, it is not so much trade in general in which the present administration is interested, as it is trade within the British empire. Under this legislation, if the government wished to force the channels of trade more or less exclusively within the British empire, they could pass an order in council the provisions of which would have that effect. First of all, they could restrict the exportation of agricultural or other products to any country other than countries of the British empire. I wonder if the

74726-185J

agriculturists of this country realize that under this legislation an order in council could be passed any day making it impossible for them to ship their products to countries other than those the government itself wished; that they would have to ship their products only to the countries named by the governor in council. They may allege that may not be the intention, but the power is there. Similarly with respect to the importation of goods other than agricultural products, the farmers of this country may find that many of these may be permitted to come in only from countries of the British empire; that they cannot be brought in from other countries with which we may wish to trade in order to sell our agricultural products abroad. The very life and existence of agriculture may depend upon trade with those very countries. That to my mind is the most serious part of this measure, and as yet it has scarcely been alluded to. I submit that there is not an hon. member of the house who would not wish to see legislation enacted which was certain to help the farming industry. But if an act is to be placed upon the statutes of this country which gives to the governor in council the power to prevent the export of any natural product to any country other than that which the governor in council determines, and to prevent the bringing into this country of any commodities which may come under the provisions of this bill, then I think the farming communities of this country may find if this bill goes through in its present form they have been hamstrung, to use a well understood expression.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
CON

James Herbert Stitt

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STITT (Selkirk):

What position are they in to-day?

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

That is no

answer. Why make their position worse? That is the objection I take to the manner in which hon. gentlemen opposite are legislating.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
CON

Ambrose Upton Gledstanes Bury

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BURY:

On a point of order; the right hon. gentleman is discussing section 12 of the bill. Much of the discussion this afternoon might be held to be out of order but it might come within the wide terms of section 4. The things being discussed by the right hon. gentleman come expressly within section 12.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

Might I say to my hon. friend that I am discussing section 1. Does he realize that the committee is on section 1, which reads:

This act may be cited as The Natural Products Marketing Act, 1934.

Marketing Act

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
CON

Ambrose Upton Gledstanes Bury

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BURY:

I thought we were on section

4.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

We are on section 1.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
CON

William Gordon Ernst

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ERNST:

Does the right hon. gentleman object to the title?

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I do object to the title as I think it is a misnomer altogether. I do not think it is an act to assist marketing; I think it is an act to restrict trade; I think it is an act to prohibit trade; I think it is an act to limit production, and an act to create monopolies in certain natural products; I think it is an act to restrict sales; I think it is an act which serves to bring about restrictions in several other ways. Hon. gentlemen opposite seem to be going on the theory that because the farmers and producers have been having a hard time they are going to be satisfied with any legislation brought down regardless altogether of its character or provisions. They talk about this bill as though it was one the farmers wished for. May I say that there is a great difference between a marketing bill which will do something effective in the interests of the farming communities and a measure under which the governor in council can do almost anything it pleases with respect to the limiting of production and the restriction of trade. That is a phase of this measure which I think should be considered very carefully by the committee before they proceed further with the enactment of these provisions.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
Permalink

May 8, 1934