May 2, 1934

?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

If hon. gentlemen will look at what I said at the time the Minister of Finance introduced the bill with respect to the central bank, they will observe that I then stated that inasmuch as the minister had said that the question of the ownership of shares and control was an open question to be fully discussed in committee, we would not oppose the second reading of the measure. Could we have received from the government a similar assurance with respect to certain of the provisions of this measure, there would not have been the opposition to the second reading there necessarily was, because of certain principles which are embodied in the measure as it stands. It was because the government would give no such assurance that we were obliged to construe as final the principles of the bill as set forth in the clauses which I quoted when speaking on the second reading.

Apart from this, may I direct the attention of the committee to what has taken place thus far. A number of speeches have been made on the second reading. At a cursory glance, I find that of those who have spoken there have been nineteen Conservatives. There were quite a number of speakers from the Labour party, the C.C:F. and the Socialist group in the far corner, and they should be added to the Conservative number in accounting for the time consumed on the second reading also, because of the common attitude assumed towards the bill by the new Tory-Socialist alliance. From this side of the house there were only seventeen in all who spoke on the second reading of the measure. May I add this further word by way simply of refuting what the Minister of Agriculture has

Marketing Act

said as to the opposition seeking in any way to protract the proceedings. There is a great difference between standing for your principles, asserting and maintaining your position, and endeavouring to protract proceedings indefinitely. I stand within hearing of members of my own party when I say that a week ago to-day, at a party caucus, I expressed the view that there was nothing to be gained at all by protracting discussion on this, or indeed on any measure at present before the house, and I counselled expedition in the matter of getting through the legislation of the session. I said that I believed, because of pending provincial elections, there was a deliberate plan on the government's part to keep the House of Commons in session a very considerable length of time, and I did not think we should lend ourselves to anything of that kind. As regards, therefore, the Prime Minister's statement that the action of the opposition is in any way responsible for his not permitting the measure to go to a committee, he is entirely in the wrong in making any such statement. The proper procedure would have been at the outset for the government to have expressed its intention to send this bill to a select committee; and, I repeat, had it not been that the government expressed a diametrically opposite intention, and given us to understand that the bill would be discussed only in committee of the whole house, and not be referred to a select committee, where the principle underlying its general provisions might be fully discussed, our attitude in regard to the second reading would, as a matter of course, have been different.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I am sure the country will be delighted now to have heard wihat was said in caucus of the Liberal party for the purpose of determining what public action should be taken, for otherwise we should not have known what the attitude of the right hon. gentleman and his party was or is. It is pleasing now to know, in a secondhand way, that a week ago they desired to save the country from any knowledge of the great struggle between John and the Barons and of the difficulties which Alfred experienced in cooking the cakes, and things of that kind. But there is one thing that is very apparent, and that is that when the amendment was moved by the right hon. gentleman for his party it was an amendment that tried to be on both sides of the question. It reminded one of that Pilgrim who in his progress met Mr. Facing-Both-Ways. That is exactly what was done here: the amendment approved the principle of the bill and then denounced it. But in accordance with the rules of parliament

it was ruled out of order, and instead of facing both ways we have had to face one way with the result that there has been a majority of sixty against the opposition, led by the former Minister of Agriculture in the administration of the right hon. gentleman. This bill, we know now, has been talked to for one solid week by the opposition because the government indicated that it was to go to committee of the whole house. The right hon. gentleman tells us that it is because we said at the beginning that it was to go to committee of the whole house that he has taken a week to discuss it. That being so, it is clear that it should no longer be considered as being open to go to a select committee.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

Most of the week was taken up by the right hon. gentleman's own friends.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Surely-

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain

Liberal

Mr. CASGRAIN:

The list is there.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

Nineteen against

thirty-five.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

If the right hon. gentleman will measure the columns I think he will find that his statement is quite incorrect, for my memory is that he himself spoke about two hours, which represents the length of time allowed by the rules of the house for four average speeches. So that if you measure the columns you will see that his statement is hardly correct. But this is what I was going to point out. The leader of the opposition says to-day that had it not been for the statement made on the introduction of the bill, or early in its progress, that the bill was to go to committee of the whole house, all this long week might have been saved. Inasmuch as the week has been lost, and the discussions have taken place, it is obvious that the bill should not go to a select committee but should remain where it was said it would go. That is the logic of the position. It means that. Therefore, a week having now been taken and full opportunity having been had to discuss the whole matter, the penalty of course is that we shall proceed rapidly with the bill now that the week has already been exhausted in a discussion of it and the sending of it to a select or standing committee is wholly unnecessary. If the right hon. gentleman's observations do not mean that, they mean nothing. Therefore I think we have disposed of the matter by the statement made by the right hon. gentleman on behalf of his party. The hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Woodsworth) said on behalf of his party that they would support the bill. They did not support it for any love of this government or this party; they did so because

Marketing Act

they thought it was sound policy for the benefit of their constituents. If they have any observations to make, it has been pointed out that they have the fullest opportunity to offer amendments in committee of the whole house. I am wholly against the bill going to a select or standing committee because it is not the class of bill that should go.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

Wilfred Hanbury

Liberal

Mr. HANBURY:

Is the right hon. member afraid of outside evidence?

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

The kind of evidence

mentioned by the hon. gentleman who has just spoken, outside or inside evidence, is the kind of evidence on which he is a standing authority.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

Wilfred Hanbury

Liberal

Mr. HANBURY:

That is your stock joke.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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?

Mr BENNETT:

We are neither building a hotel at Vancouver nor extending the construction of steamships on the Pacific slope. That is the inside side of it. The outside side of it is this: we are afraid neither of discussion nor of amendments nor of hopeful outlook on the part of hon. members opposite with respect to their opposition to this legislation. But there is one thing we do say: This is not the sort of bill that in England would be sent to a committee.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

Why?

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

The answer is obvious; this bill involves a principle that the house has accepted after a great struggle, just as the Home Rule bill was accepted.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

The Minster of Agriculture said that the situation n England was different from what it is here.

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Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Quite different. There

ivould not be such a long time lost on the second reading; the guillotine would have fallen on the second day. That being so, the question of principle having been voted upon, the official opposition having declared that they will fight this bill strenuously to the end, and the right hon. gentleman speaking for the major opposition in the house having said that last week's discussion took place solely because of the fact that the bill was to go to a committee of the whole house-

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I did not say anything of the kind. Last week's discussion was in large part by hon. members opposite and last week was taken up, as the right hon. gentleman knows, to a certain extent in discussing other matters.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I should have said: He told caucus that.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

Very clever.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Not clever; it is a fact. But I would say to the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre that this is the kind of legislation that, the principle of it having been adopted by the house, the measure itself is really an effort to give effect to that principle. Any amendments or suggestions may be offered in committee of the whole. The minister himself has a large number of amendments to offer that, we believe, will expedite the passage of the bill in order that it may become available for use in this country as soon as possible.

The hon. member for Melville referred to four bills that went to the committee on agriculture. But they were all subjects of an entirely different character from this

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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May 2, 1934