April 24, 1934

CON

Charles Napoléon Dorion

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. C. N. DORION (Quebec-Montmorency) (Translation):

Mr. Speaker, representing a county which comprises a population three quarters of which are farmers, I deem it my duty to briefly comment on this bill No. 51.

The title "The Natural Products Marketing Act" summarizes all its economic purpose.

Ever since the mechanization of industry which gave birth to economic liberalism-the primary cause of the ills from which this modern world suffers, at present-numerous measures have been enacted by various countries; however, such legislation, as a whole, only concerns trade and industry. The present bill under consideration is one of the most progressive measures ever submitted to the parliament of Canada, and that is what gives it such importance, because by this legislation we are resolutely resorting to regulated economy, particularly in connection with natural products.

Since the government introduced this bill, we have read some criticism in the press which sides with the oppsition, especially in the province of Quebec.

The conservative party is charged with having borrowed part of its program from the radical party, the C.C.F. We may reply, as Disraeli once said:

I am a conservative to preserve what is sound; a radical to suppress what is unsound.

250}

Marketing Act-Mr. Dorion

For too long a time-we are aware of this, to-day, more than ever-the state has neglected to carry out one of its primary functions: to regulate the economic activities of the nation, not in the interest or for the benefit of the private individual or group of persons, but in the interest of the collectivity or community.

Up to this day, economic liberalism-which prompted Jean Baptiste Say to state: "Production opens markets to products"-made it a rule to prohibit any interference by the state in the economic field of activities. The rule of supply and demand was the law. Where has this principle in practice for over a century and a half led us? What do we see throughout the world after such a long period of indifference or "laissez faire"? Why has the state so long been reluctant to interfere in order to regulate the prices, salaries and markets? Those are as many questions which we have a right to ask and which the present bill will be a solution for many.

Indeed, it is not sufficient to have discovered new methods of wealth production, the means of specially putting such production in circulation and distributing it must be resorted to. I repeat what I stated a moment ago as regards mechanization of industry and economic liberalism; the first of these two sciences has attained a high degree of development; however, the second through abstention on the part of the state has lamentably dragged behind.

As George Boris wrote in his work intituled: "Probleme de l'or et crise mondiale":

There is no lack of motive power or means to create it. Neither are the building materials wanting; nor are we short of food to feed humanity or fuel to keep the people warm; nor are the textiles or leather wanting to clothe us. Large mills exist, new ones can easily he built and equipped to turn the raw material into articles of consumption. And the hands are also willing, only awaiting the order to start work.

However, the means of distribution and exchange are not in keeping with the methods of production which could probably fill our requirements and wishes. That is the reason why the iron rule remains in force making the poverty of some the ransom for the welfare of others.

The period between 1914 and 1918 should serve as examples to us. It happened that troops were marking time on certain battlefields while others were almost overwhelmed by the enemy. What did those in command do under such circumstances? Did they send back home these unoccupied soldiers? No such blunder was made but there was a new distribution of the various units, troops were massed where the enemy was on the point of breaking through. So must we act in the economic field of activities. The duty

TMr. Dorion.]

of the state is to regulate the purchasing and marketing of natural products so that those who are short may purchase them from those who already have too much.

Why produce wealth if we do not know how to put it in circulation or distribute it? In fact, are not the two results sought by this bill to circulate and distribute our natural products? Mr. Albert Rioux, president of "l'Union Catholique des cultivateurs de la province de Quebec," doctor of agricultural science, has a deep knowledge of farm problems-not only from a theoretical viewpoint but also as regards the practical side-he is one of the most brilliant Canadian scholars who studied the question, he wrote in the "Devoir" on April 10 and 17, two very interesting articles in connection with the act relating to the Natural Products Marketing Board. It will afford me pleasure, indeed, to see these two articles translated into English for the benefit of our friends who speak the English language and who do not read the "Devoir."

In the first of these articles, after having noted that, from the very outset of the crisis, all industries had taken measures to adapt themselves to the law of supply and demand by reducing their output and exercising a strict control over their members, the author adds:

The farmers carried on their production, they even attempted, in a number of cases, to increase this production so as to compensate themselves for the loses sustained in the drop in prices.

Moreover, agriculture is incapable of quickly adapting its production to the changing conditions of the market. Many factors which influence the agricultural output are uncontrollable by man. Isolated, essentially individualists, farmers cannot organize and easily group themselves to regulate their production and' marketing activities.

Free competitive methods have afforded an opportunity to large corporations to monopolize the distribution of most of the farm products.

Ever since the crisis prevails, we note that, in all countries, the margin, between the prices paid to producers and exacted from the consumers is continuously increasing. The cost of distributing farm products is too greatly increasing. Briefly the situation of farmers demands state intervention.

New conditions are developing, we are rapidly passing from a system of free competition to that of economic control.

Regulated economy, means deliberate control of economic activities not for the benefit of one or groups of private interests but for the benefit of the community.

In the past economy meant that the state was prohibited to interfere in the economic sphere; it trusted to the hazard of indifference or chance to solve social problems; it looked upon as sacred the law of supply and demand, abstained from influencing prices, wages and the market. This free competition

Marketing Act-Mr. Donon

brought on chaos in the distribution of products, the fleecing of producers and consumers by trusts, overproduction and deflation of prices.

Agriculture, the industry of primary importance to society is also the one which has felt the crisis most and is the most helpless to react. Most of the countries have first attacked the wheat problem, the importance of which is foremost. Wheat is the foundation of agriculture; it fixes the prices of the coarse grains and, indirectly, the price of animal products. Even in 1925, Italy levied a tax on imported wheat and inaugurated a vast program known as the "wheat conflict." In Germany the general tariff on imported wheat is almost three times the price it sells on the London or Liverpool market. Great Britain adopted its "Wheat Act" in 1932 so as to give to her producers a sufficient market, at a profitable price. France, Belgium and all the countries of central and eastern Europe developed a vast system of customs tariffs, regulations in the charges for grinding, in the importation quotas, in licences to import or export. These competitive measures against imported products were everywhere accompanied by a program of protection and assistance to national agriculture.

Soon, not only wheat but all other products will come under the control of regulated economy. In England, the Agricultural Marketing Act provides for the organization of producers of certain farm products for the purpose of regulating prices on the market. In the United States a whole chain of legislation embodies all economic activities, "the Agricultural Adjustment Act, Emergency Farm Mortgage Act. Farm Credit Act, Emergency Banking Act, Unemployed Relief Act, National Industrial Recovery Act." The agricultural and industrial program of Roosevelt constitutes the most complete scheme put into practice heretofore. By creating The Natural Products Marketing Board the dominion government boldly takes the path leading to regulated economy.

In the Devoir's issue of April 17, Mr. Rioux adds:

The hon. L. A. Taschereau has just enacted a measure in the legislative assembly intituled "An Act to assist in putting into effect in this province any regulation helping the marketing of the natural products of Canada." The provincial government is therefore authorized to enforce by orders in council the act creating the Dominion Marketing Board. We wish to congratulate the Prime Minister for his diligence in cooperating with the dominion authorities; we hope that, in the administration of this act, the cooperation of Quebec and Ottawa will be perfect.

Mr. Speaker, I think Mr. Rioux was too hasty in congratulating the hon. Prime Minister of Quebec in having the Legislative Assembly adopt an act permitting the enforcement in the province of the Natural Products Marketing Act. If we are to judge from the interview published in " Le Canada " of this date, Mr. Taschereau desires to protest against two measures at present under consideration by the House of Commons. First, Mr. Taschereau referring to the Marketing bill, states:

Ottawa desires to take over the control of our forests, mines, fisheries and natural products.

An hon. MEMBER (Translation): Shame!

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CON

Charles Napoléon Dorion

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DORION (Translation):

Evidently

Mr. Taschereau has not read this bill because the Dominion government has no intention of encroaching on provincial rights as regards ownership of forests, water powers or mines, but simply wishes to legislate in connection with products of the forest, water powers and mines.

Mr. Taschereau after having referred to the new tax on gold, adds:

The danger is at our door.

Mr. Taschereau must have probably thought that he was another Mirabeau. Rising before the Assembly of the States General, in 1789, Mirabeau exclaimed: "We are discussing and the danger is at our door." Danger is perhaps at certain doors but not in the sense which Mr. Taschereau wishes to convey. The danger lies at the doors of certain large industrial corporations and trusts.

Mr. Taschereau has no need to fear we shall permit him to sacrifice, as he has done for ever so long, the natural resources of Quebec, to dispose of them at shameful prices and thus rob us.

I return to the article of Mr. Rioux, of April 17:

Mr. Taschereau expresses, however, the opinion that this measure encroaches on the rights, prerogatives and autonomy of Quebec. The Dominion Marketing Board will only regulate the forest, land and sea trade, it will not have the authority to sell or concede to foreigners at wretched prices, our forests, mines, water powers, lakes, rivers and all our natural resources. As in the past, such prerogatives will remain with the province. . . .

A number of newspapers have charged the dominion government with assuming an economic dictatorship.

They are unaware, no doubt, that this Marketing Board' is requested by farmers' associations of all the provinces.

A few years ago, British Columbia at the request of those interested, organized a closed cooperative society of fruit growers. Within two years, this organization succeeded in giving a considerable impulse to the fruit production of that province. , ,

When referred' to the tribunals, the British Columbia legislation was declared ultra vires. Since then, fruit growers have been requesting a federal measure which would permit them to revive their compulsory cooperative association. They have found again that the minority of growers who do not join a free cooperative society spoil the good effects of such cooperation.

Marketing Act-Mr. Dorion

As the hon. Mr. Taschereau pointed out, the western provinces are favourable to such a proposal. But so are also the eastern farmers. At its annual congress of 1932, "l'Union Catholique des Cultivateurs" requested a federal commission to supervise the marketing of farm products, especially, to regulate the trade of dairy products. At the congress held in November last, our society again made the same request so as to organize the marketing of our important farm products.

In April, 1933, the representatives of the principal Canadian dairy associations met in Ottawa. They unanimously adopted quite an elaborate resolution requesting the Dominion Minister of Agriculture to create immediately a Farm Produce Marketing Board.

In November, 1933, delegates of the principal farming groups of all the provinces again met at Toronto. After three days of debate in the presence of Hon. Robert Weir, who was assisted by a number of experts from Ottawa and Toronto, together with the collaboration of representatives of British and Australian Cooperative societies, the congress passed a resolution requesting the Dominion Minister of Agriculture to prepare a measure based on the British Agricultural Act of 1931, so as to facilitate the marketing of farm products.

Instead of assuming an economic dictatorship, the dominion government simply acquiesce to the ever pressing and repeated' solicitations of the farmers throughout the country. It is the first time that farmers have been able to obtain such a broad national agricultural policy.

Mr. Rioux who, I repeat, possesses a wide knowledge of farm problems of our province, speaking on behalf of " l'Union catholique des cultivateurs de la province de Quebec " approves of this bill, and I think he is quite right.

I think, sir, in order to dispel the crisis from which suffer certain national products -especially agricultural products-the duty of a government, conscious of its responsibilities towards the people, is to regulate these products, to assure their marketing, supervise the quantity and quality and even-if it becomes necessary in the interest of the people, as a whole-to establish a kind of monopoly by the state on some of these products.

One may designate this as regulated economy, however, whatever name is given to such a system, it is without doubt preferable to the chaos existing at present which is so detrimental both to producers and consumers.

May I quote, sir, what some author wrote on the causes of unemployment:

The fault lies in the system of mass production, of rationalized and concentrated production, when unaccompanied by an endeavour to increase consumption and the purchasing power in all countries, where bankruptcy exists. Unrestricted and uncontrolled competition, unlimited production, out of proportion with consumption, are neither desired nor possible.

All those who feel uneasy about the duration of the present depression, admit it: the present crisis is a natural sequel of the disorderly state in which is to be found the distribution of wealth in connection with its production. That is the primary cause of the financial, monetary and social troubles from which we suffer.

The present bill under consideration is of a nature to remedy this disorder. No doubt, as the hon. Minister of Agriculture stated, it [DOT]is subject to improvement; however, such as it is, sufficient benefit can be derived from it to warrant our support.

It is futile to imagine that the future will be like the past. We are passing through a period of economic evolution. No doubt schemes like this one are totally contrary to our preconceived ideas; however, the necessity for a new economic organization is clearly seen by those who are willing for a moment, to observe the changes taking place these days throughout the world. Ever since the Christian era, many economic systems have been tried out, each adapting itself to the circumstances and conditions of the times and locality. Providing that at the basis of all economic systems, we always adhere to the great fundamental Christian principles, nothing should prevent us from seeking improvement and even perfection.

All legislation which affords us the means of controlling production in quantity as well as in quality, allows us to regulate such production according to consumption, insures the distribution under the best conditions possible -bath in the interest of producers and consumers-deserves the approval of well thinking citizens.

Such is the aim of the present bill. That is also why, I deem it my duty to give it my support.

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Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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UFA

Michael Luchkovich

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. MICHAEL LUCHKOVICH (Vegre-ville):

Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that the statement was made by the leader of the opposition (Mr. Mackenzie King) and other members to your left that the legislation now before us is somewhat socialistic I think it might be in order for me to address you as Comrade Speaker rather than as Mr. Speaker. It looks now as if the vested interests have transferred their affections to the members to the left of the Speaker and that the members to the left of the Speaker have transferred their affections to the vested interests.

I am very thankful to the hon. member for Melville (Mr. Motherwell) for the only really constructive speech on this legislation that has come from hon. gentlemen to my

Marketing Act-Mr. Luchkovich

right in this debate. Indeed he has gone so far that I am inclined to believe that he has knocked the wind out of the sails of the constitutionalists who sit with him, and I am now wondering what the poor old Liberal boat will do now that it has been cast upon that stormy sea in which it is now wallowing. I am also wondering what the boy on the burning deck from Weyburn will do in this regard.

I shall state at the outset, Mr. Speaker, that if liberty was being abused I should fight like blazes to defend it, but I certainly refuse to be led on another false scent by this old smelly red herring that has so often been thrown across the path not only of hon. members of this house but of the public generally. As I have already said, I am thankful for the statement made by the hon. member for Melville in regard to this legislation. What he said was that there were certain sections of the bill that he did not like, but more sections that he did like. In other words, he felt like Brutus, not that he loved Caesar less but Rome more. Similarly it is not that the former Minister of Agriculture loves the arguments advanced by his party less, but he loves the legislation that we have before us more.

I think we had a parallel case in regard to the amendment moved by the leader of the opposition not so very long ago when there was moved from this corner an amendment to the Bank of Canada bill. I noticed that at that time the opposition voted against the amendment moved by us. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, and both the amendment that was moved on that occasion and the amendment now before us dealt with the provisions of the bills that were and are before the house.

I am sorry I was not able to follow the hon. member who has just sat down (Mr. Dorion) as I do not understand his language. I am glad that the hon. member for Humboldt (Mr. Totzke) did not, like some of his friends, use again that outworn argument on liberty and constitutionalism.

We in this part of the house, Mr. Speaker have been criticized because we believe in the idea of a planned economy, but I notice that the Hon. Vincent Massey in a statement which he made the other day said:

The primary conflict is not therefore isolation versus internationalism, but planning _ versus improvisation, and in this trouble planning will I believe be victorious.

I suppose after making a statement like that Mr. Massey, if the leader of the opposition ever gets into power, will not again be appointed minister plenipotentiary to Washington.

Stuart Chase has had this to say in regard to liberty in his book, What is an Economic System For?-

The whole history of legislation refutes the abstract argument on liberty in so far as each law does curtail liberty.

I understand that during the regime of the leader of the opposition many bills were passed containing similar provisions and providing for similar penalties, and yet the members of the opposition who now so vociferously criticize this legislation did not criticize the curtailment of liberty in that legislation which they helped to pass during the Liberal regime. I think all this talk about liberty in connection with this bill is nothing less than a travesty on justice and a burlesque on liberty.

The principle of the marketing bill now before us is, broadly speaking, that there shall be a body between the primary producer and the ultimate consumer to facilitate a better and more economic distribution of natural products to the consumer, or, in the language of the bill itself, this is an act "to improve the methods and practices involved in the marketing of natural products in Canada and in export trade."

Since my constituency want to know how I stand on this matter I shall have to put myself on record. This is a bill which the farmers of the west have been fighting for during the past decade, and if its opponents think otherwise they have another thought coming to them. I am quite satisfied that the agriculturists of my part of the province of Alberta at least are wholly in accord with the principle which I have just enunciated.

I strongly deprecate, however, the stand taken by the hon. member for Melville when he advanced arguments to show that this bill was aimed at the consumer. Never in the history of Canada have the consumers been getting away with such shameful and disgracefully low prices for farm products. Do hon. members who advance this argument expect that the farmers of Canada are going to produce indefinitely at below the cost of production in order to benefit the consumers? Do they expect that the primary producers will be willing to remain in eternal bankruptcy in order that the consumers may obtain their produce at next to nothing? I can see neither rhyme nor reason in the contention that the consumer is being discriminated against by the provisions of this bill when not so long ago eggs were selling at four dozen for twenty-five cents, turkeys at seventy cents each and grains below the cost of production. The consumer has had his innings, and I think it is about time the farmer should be allowed to come to

Marketing Act-Mr. Luchkovich

been turned into a kind of farce by the innumerable and irrelevant references to this idea of liberty. The idea of liberty has always been represented as a pure, simple, lovely and excellent young maiden, but after the way in which the hon. member for Wey-burn (Mr. Young) misapplied her ideal, I am afraid she will not talk to him any more. I am surprised that a man of his age could be so flippant and flirtatious in regard to matters of this kind. I certainly believe the manner in which she was embraced by the hon. member for Vancouver Centre (Mr. Mackenzie) will certainly not enhance the chances of permanent wedlock that he might have had, had he adopted some other attitude towards the idea of liberty in this lovely damsel. As for the method employed by the leader of the opposition of virtually dragging this fair maiden by her long tresses into this discussion will forevermore condemn him to a life of celibacy and all the other idiosyncrasies that go with bachelorhood. Of course I can visualize him as saying: Give me liberty or give me death, whether that statement applies to marital, economic or political problems. But it certainly does not destroy my contention that this fine virtue, liberty, has been wrongly construed as applied to the discussion on this particular bill. It is not political but rather economic liberty that is at stake at this time. In this age of great industrial development we have evolved an industrial system in which there is no liberty, in which the producer has to take the price that is offered him on the basis of laissez-faire, the policy of rugged individualism that the Liberals have upheld for the past one hundred years, but which now seems to be out-dated and obsolete. We have attained political freedom; what we want now is economic freedom. The trouble with many people is that they have one-track minds. They have been in the rut so long and have

Germany. . . .

France

Italy

Czechoslovakia

Japan

Mexico

worn it so deep that they are not able to look over the edges and see what is going on in the world about them. When one realizes that under this rugged individualism cattle are being burned in the Argentine, oranges thrown into the ocean, and other food products being wilfully destroyed, one certainly concludes that the economy which permits such insanity cannot be very much planned.

The world's markets at the present time are being shot to pieces. Purchasing power in the w'orld generally as well as in Canada has been reduced to almost nothing. In answer to all this what do we get from the hon. member for Weyburn and other hon. members to my right? Nothing but cries of, "Negotiate; why don't you negotiate?" When we analyze this feature thoroughly we find that the chief protagonists of negotiation have been largely responsible for negotiating this country out of business. For lack of time to develop this point further I shall just submit comparative figures for one staple product, wheat. Thereby hangs a tale. But before I come to that let me say that the hon. member for Weyburn, being a Scotchman, doubtless sings often the old ditty:

My bonnie lies over the ocean,

My bonnie lies over the sea;

My bonnie lies over the ocean,

O bring back my bonnie to me!

"My bonnie" may be taken to refer to international trade. So one can visualize the hon. member singing of it in the following paraphrase:

I'll bring it back through negotiation.

I'll bring it back with a treaty or two; With tariffs and free trade devotion,

I'll bring good times back unto you.

If it were not unparliamentary I would ask all hon. members to join in the chorus.

Here are some significant figures as to the rates of duty charged on wheat by various countries:

Lowest rate Free in 1922 $0 11 in 1924 Free in 1921 Free in 1921 0 18 in 1921 0 60 in 1923

Highest rate

$0 9S in 19300 85 in 19300 731 in 19291 36 in 19330 34 in 19301 05 in 1930

(per cwt.)

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

Edward James Young

Liberal

Mr. YOUNG:

Will my hon. friend tell us what were our exports of wheat in 1929 and each year since?

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UFA

Michael Luchkovich

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:

Our exports of wheat in 1927, 1928 and 1929 were very large. But that is aside from the point. The point, is that you have charged the government with failure to negotiate, but what about negotia-

tion during the time these conditions came into being? My point is that these markets were lost to us between the years 1921 and 1930 when the duty on wheat was raised as indicated by the above figures.

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LIB

Edward James Young

Liberal

Mr. YOUNG:

If my hon. friend would give the figures that I have asked for we would be able to check him up.

Marketing Act-Mr. Luchkovich

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UFA

Michael Luchkovich

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:

I would give them if I had them here but I have not got them.

If my hon. friend wants to know he had better look them up for himself.

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CON

Eccles James Gott

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOTT:

You are clever in arguing from figures you have in your head.

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UFA

Michael Luchkovich

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:

These figures show that the duties against our wheat have been slowly rising ever since 1922. Who was in power then, and who lost this trade? Certainly not the C.C.F., certainly not the Labour party, certainly not the United Farmers. It was lost by these mighty negotiators.

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LIB

Edward James Young

Liberal

Mr. YOUNG:

Hear the new allies of the Tory party!

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UFA

Michael Luchkovich

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:

The great defenders of liberty in this country were the ones who lost this trade for us. Yet they keep on crying. "Why don't you negotiate?"-completely forgetting what a sad lot of negotiators they turned out to be when they were in power. If negotiation is the criterion by which the Liberals are to be measured, how would they explain the enactment of the Fordney-McCumber tariff in 1922, which killed our cattle trade? They did not do much by negotiation there. What excuse have they for the Hawley-Smoot tariff of 1929? That certainly did not do us any good. In view of these facts I should think they would be the last to mention negotiation.

I should like also to refer to the "brick for brick" tariff policy that was considered so great a virtue in the time of the Dunning budget, but so terrible a sin under the Right Hon. Mr. Meighen; but I do not wish to rub it in too much. I think I do Mr. Dunning an injustice by not enumerating some of the great benefits that accrued to Canada when the Liberals in 1930 put hay, straw, oats, wheat and cut flowers on the free list of imports. Of course Canada has not enough of these things, but must bring them in from foreign countries! It is only right to give the credit for so profound a discovery to the Liberal statisticians of the day. It was when the farmers of this country began to see the ridiculous futility of such a free list that the party had to look into their bag of tricks for some other scheme to fool the public. Their latest device has been to make goo-goo eyes at Miss Liberty and try to win her over to their way of thinking. But by their crude ways and lack of good behaviour and proper etiquette they have estranged her affections. I heard the hon. member for Lisgar (Mr. Brown) heave a couple of sighs and saw him cast a few flirtatious winks in her direction. I saw the hon. member for North Battleford

(Mr. McIntosh) also throwing kisses by the handful, the hon. member for Vancouver Centre (Mr. Mackenzie) give a long series of "yoo-hoo's," the hon. member for Weyburn plead on bended knee, the leader of the opposition whisper a lot of sweet nothings in her ear, but generally sireaking the amorous technique of the Liberal would-be Romeos made no impression whatsoever upon her; for while any of these so-called liberty lovers might be able to supply the veil, the ring, the trousseau and all the other paraphernalia incidental to a wedding, with the hon. member for Lisgar hanging around to tie the knot,

I verily believe that honest Bob Gardiner could step right up to the very altar like Lochinvar of old and snatch away the unwilling bride from the whole lot of them. One can almost imagine Bob saying: I cannot offer you castles in the air, like the leader of the opposition, or sugar-coated hokum like the member for Vancouver Centre, or the luxuries of free trade like the hon. member for Weyburn, or the paradise of good old Liberalism like the member for North Battleford-

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LIB

Edward James Young

Liberal

Mr. YOUNG:

Why don't you speak for yourself, John?

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UFA

Michael Luchkovich

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:

I am not offering her anything at all, because I did not make love to her like you fellows did-Bob Gardiner saying: "All I can give you is true love and an honest average living," and Miss Liberty saying: "I understand. Bobby darling, but that is more than I expect from those fellows over there."

Now all that this bill purports to do is to facilitate marketing, and in my opinion it in no way infringes upon the liberties of the individual; rather, it aims at the lightening of the burden thrown upon the producers of this country in consequence of abnormal marketing conditions. Why, therefore, should we theorize and elaborate on abstract problems of liberty? Why should we warp facts to fit them into preconceived ideas of freedom? This marketing problem is an actual condition in Canada and it must be met by direct action and not by long quotations about liberty from men whom the worms have eaten a hundred or a thousand years now. To defeat this bill, it seems to me that the Liberals must even resurrect the dead instead of allowing them to lie in peace-or in pieces as one hon. member behind me suggests.

Once again we have had this weird ghost of constitutionalism taken out of its musty and mouldy casket in the dark and damp parliamentary dungeon from amongst the

Marketing Act-Mr. Gott

cobwebs, worms, lizards and other crawling creatures existent down there; and once again we have this fleshless and ghoulish skeleton trotted out on the floor to haunt hon. members and destroy their peace of mind. Once again we have this soulless, fleshless, meaningless old bugbear flaunted by the leader of the opposition to scare the wits out of the spinsters and bachelors tnd sisters and brothers and fathers and mothers and cousins and uncles and aunts and grandmas and grandads to show them how devilish and damnable is the legislation which we have now before us.

Mr. EOCLES J. GOTT (South Essex): I rise to occupy the time of the house for only a few minutes, and I doubt whether I would have taken part in this debate had it not been for the remarks of the hon. member who has just taken his seat (Mr. Luchkovich) relevant to the exportation of cattle from Canada to the United States. Having the figures before me, I wonder whether he realizes the importance of that trade.

I had some questions on the order paper a few days ago in which I sought to ascertain the trade between Canada and the United States in cattle alone for the past few years, and I learned from the report that came to hand the other day that in 1928 Canada exported to the United States 200,013 head of cattle. After the application of the Fordney-McCumber tariff and the Hawley-Smoot tariff in 1930, before the Liberal party went out of power, Canada exported 1,976 head of cattle. I quote these figures merely to direct to the attention of the house the importance of the cattle trade. The result has been, not only in cattle but in all classes of trade, that the United States has practically refused to deal with us.

I rise to support this bill, having been solicited by a number of my constituents, because I represent the most diversified farming section in the whole dominion, and this bill Stands to benefit every solitary person I have the honour to represent. That is why I am supporting this measure, Bill No. 51, An Act to improve the methods and practices of marketing of natural products in Canada and in export trade, and to make further provision in connection therewith.

I desire to place on record a letter which I received from the South Essex growers under date April 12. The gentleman who writes me this letter calls me Ecc, and although he aspired to the Liberal nomination in the riding some time ago he writes as follows:

I have your letter of April 10 re marketing act and' certainly am pleased that you are familiar with the act and are supporting it.

The Canadian Horticultural Council, of which I am vegetable representative for the province of Ontario, have been fighting for an act of this kind for a couple of years. Now that the act has actually been drafted and had its first hearing we hope nothing will prevent it being passed by the house.

At a largely attended meeting of the fruit and vegetable interests of the province held in the parliament buildings in Toronto on April 3 the feeling was unanimous that this bill should fill all our requirements in regard to sane control of marketing our agricultural products.

The only opposition, so far as we are aware, is from the chambers of commerce in the larger cities who are, apparently , opposing the measure, acting in the inteersts of possibly their wholesale and jobbing interests who feel that their control of setting farm prices will pass to the farmer.

And why should it not pass to the farmer? Why not? The farmer has been the under dog in this country for years; why therefore should he not have control over his products? The letter concludes:

We would ask you to contact our members and ask them to support this measure. I tried to get in touch with you during the Easter holidays but was unable to do so. Your support to this measure would be greatly appreciated by the South Essex Growers and also all others in the industry who are aware of the real purposes of the act.

Thanking you for your support, I am,

Yours sincerely,

Ed. Atkin.

There have been utterances in this house to the effect that this measure is radical, but it is not to be compared with the assertions of the hon. member for West Middlesex (Mr. Elliott) when he spoke in Windsor last year. On that occasion the hon. gentleman was heralded as the coming leader of the Liberal party, the coming Prime Minister of Canada, and a gigantic picnic was advertised for weeks and weeks. When he went to deliver his speech, however, less than one hundred people were in the audience, but owing to the fact that he had his speech all prepared for delivery, and had already handed it to the press, he had to deliver it. The Border Cities Star the next day appeared with the following:

Sees Canada Under N.R.A.

Liberals Will Devise Similar Plans if Given Power

J. C. Elliott's Pledge

Ex-Minister Assails Tory Spending With No Results Gained

Canada will have its N.R.A. campaign of higher wages, shorter hours and planned production if the Liberals are returned to power, Hon. J. C. Elliott, who was minister of public works in the King government, promised a Grit picnic late Saturday afternoon in Baby Park.

"What Liberalism is doing on the other side of the line, I believe it will do if given that chance as soon as the people of Canada have an opportunity of voting."

Marketing Act-Mr. Gott

This pledge was dropped into a section of the former minister's prepared speech to some three hundred persons who attended the rally of Ward One Liberals.

It was supplemented by warm and detailed praise of the Roosevelt program by Mr. Elliott, who stated: "Mr. Roosevelt has accomplished more in the last three months in the way of carrying out his pledges to end unemployment than Mr. Bennett has done in the last three years."

If ever there was a radical statement, an expression without thought, I submit that the speech delivered by the hon. member for West Middlesex in Windsor was such. Now I want to show you some of the things that have been done as indicated by the report of the United States emergency hog marketing program, the objective of which was to take off the market 6,200,000 pigs.

A scale of bonuses on desirable weights and grades is paid by federal government. The pigs are sold on the markets and' the bonus (if payable) is over and above the market price which applies.

It was desired to draw out 20 per cent of the objective in the form of sows (to lessen pig population next year).

Up to October 16. 1933, they had slaughtered six million, and paid out in hog beenfits thirty million dollars and secured only a comparatively small proportion of sows.

I ask hon. members to compare the price of hogs in the United States to-day with the price in Canada, and see if this experiment, this expensive experiment, which has taken place in the United States has been beneficial to the farmers of that country.

The hon. member for Temiscouata (Mr. Pouliot), speaking some time ago-and I regret he is not in his seat; in fact he has not been in his seat very much of late-made reference to some passes which were issued to hon. members of this house. Although this inference may be a little bit aside from the subject under discussion I want to tell the house the number of passes which have been issued, and thereby definitely establish that hon. members do not abuse the privileges given them.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Order.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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CON

Eccles James Gott

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOTT:

All right. I will dispense with that. But I do wish to say that out of a total of 744,480 there were only 11,078 passes issued, to members of the House of Commons, which is a substantiation of my statement that hon. members do not abuse railway privileges.

Under this bill the hon. member for Kenora-Rainy River (Mr. Heenan) could probably be controlled very well. For instance, he has been waving a one cent cheque throughout the province of Ontario during the last few weeks. And the hon. member for North Wellington (Mr. Blair), who has just come

into the chamber, has been talking about a one cent cheque. He had ten subjects which he discussed in the South Oxford campaign. This one cent cheque has been photographed and presented to the people of the province of Ontario. I say to the hon. member for Kenora-Rainy River that if these are the tactics he intends to use in the coming provincial election in Ontario he will not get ten feet down the first base line. I would ask the people of the province of Ontario to compare the one cent cheque he is waving throughout the province with the cheques he drew in 1930. In the month of March of that year he drew $620 sessional indemnity, $700 for expenses, and as Minister of Labour he drew SI ,200, making a total of over $2,500 for that one month in 1930. I ask hon. members of this house, and especially the hon. member for ICenora-Rainy River, to photograph those cheques, and put them beside the one cent cheque he is now showing the people of Ontario.

I have before me a letter from the Ontario Swine Producers' Association. Under date of April 20, it is as follows:

Dear Sir:

I have much pleasure in enclosing a copy of a resolution passed unanimously at a meeting of the executive of the Ontario Swine Producers' Association.

In submitting this request to you we have every assurance that the bill, when passed, will provide producers of primary products with the necessary ways and means of not only establishing confidence in their own business, but also of guaranteeing to the primary producer his fair share of the consumer's dollar.

Trusting that you will lend your support in effecting the passage of this bill, I am Yours very truly,

W. P. Watson,

Secretary.

This is signed by several of the solid citizens of the good old county of Oxford. The copy of the resolution passed by the executive of the Ontario Swine Producers' Association in support of Bill No. 51, the Natural Products Marketing Act, is as follows:

Whereas it is generally recognized that the prosperity of any country is directly dependent on the state of prosperity of its producers of primary products;

And whereas the prosperity of its producers is governed to a large extent by the system followed in the marketing of these products;

And whereas a proper and efficient system of marketing includes such important factors _ as grading, the control of quality, the regulation of supply and the spread between producer and consumer;

And whereas all of these factors have been taken into consideration in the drafting of the Natural Products Marketing Act;

Therefore we the executive of the Ontario Swine Producers' Association go on record as

Marketing Act-Mr. Gott

favouring the said bill in the form in which it was drafted for first reading March 26, 1934, and respectfully request your support and cooperation to bring about the successful passage of the bill.

This resolution is signed by some of the best citizens of the county of Norfolk. There was a by-election in that county only recently which was stampeded on the last day by the Liberal party. I do not take the result of that election as an indication that there is any public sentiment against the party now in power. I say that the party in power in Ottawa to-day has saved the Dominion of Canada from financial destruction, and thank heaven we have a Prime Minister who has backbone enough to put into effect policies which have been helpful to every Canadian citizen.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

Cameron Ross McIntosh

Liberal

Mr. McINTOSH:

Heaven had not anything to do with it.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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CON

Eccles James Gott

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOTT:

Speak out, and I shall try to answer you. The Conservative party to-day has as many seats as it had immediately following the election of 1930. After all the hullabaloo following the by-elections, the Liberal party has identically the number of seats in this house to-day as it had following the general election in 1930. And if to-morrow there were an election in Canada the present government would sweep the country from coast to coast. That is my prophecy. Where is the right hon. leader of the opposition going to run in the next election? Will someone answer that?

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LIB

Cameron Ross McIntosh

Liberal

Mr. McINTOSH:

Prince Albert, of course.

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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LIB

Albert Frederick Totzke

Liberal

Mr. TOTZKE:

Prince Albert.

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Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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CON

Eccles James Gott

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOTT:

Well, he has to go a long

way from home to find a seat, I must say. There was some talk of his running in South Essex-

Topic:   MARKETING ACT
Subtopic:   ORGANIZATION TO IMPROVE METHODS AND PRACTICES IN MARKETING NATURAL PRODUCTS
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April 24, 1934