March 9, 1934

CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU:

We would gladly do it to please my hon. friend and his electors, but

Supply-Marine

it is not very convenient to establish schools in every part of all the provinces. We have a school now in nearly every province, one at Halifax and another at Yarmouth for Nova Scotia, one at Saint John for New Brunswick, one in the city of Quebec, one at Kingston and another at Collingwood for Ontario, and another at Prince Rupert for British Columbia. So far as I am aware there have been no complaints from the public that there is an insufficient number of navigation schools. We are disposed to do anything that is reasonable to help the navigators, but in these times when we have had to reduce expenditures generally we did not think of increasing the number of schools. But in the future, if things continue to improve, as I think they are improving, if we see there is a necessity for more schools, this government will be disposed to do anything reasonable.

Mr. MARCH.: Can the minister say how many students attended the school at Quebec last year?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MARINE
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CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU:

Last year the school at Quebec was open for three months and had an average monthly attendance of sixteen.

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LIB

Charles Marcil

Liberal

Mr. MARCIL:

You have a school in

Yarmouth, and it is not as far for Nova Scotians to go to Halifax as the distance from Gaspe to Quebec. Why should not the same argument apply for Quebec province as for Nova Scotia? If you have a second school in Nova Scotia, why not a second school in the province of Quebec?

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CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU:

I should hope the results would be better from a second school established in the province of Quebec than from the second school in Nova Scotia because at the school at Yarmouth, which has been open twelve months on half time, the average monthly attendance was only two, which is not very encouraging.

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LIB
LIB

Charles Marcil

Liberal

Mr. MARCIL:

The minister says he is willing to give all the facilities that are required as conditions improve. Why should not the government itself start to improve conditions by giving to the young people on the Gaspe coast the facilities for learning a calling? They are all sailors and fishermen, and they have certainly not the means to go such a long distance as to the school at Quebec. I know the minister cannot finally decide the question to-day but I would ask him to consider fully whether this is not an opportune time for him to establish a school

to enable these young people to learn a calling. They live on the Atlantic coast, and naturally are all fishermen. They would ask for nothing better than the opportunity to qualify for a calling if they could only be given the chance by the government. I think the minister should consider the question of having a school either in Bonaventure or Gaspe for these young people who live such a long distance away from Quebec. The question has often been mooted. These young people of Bonaventure have no other trade or occupation to go into whereas there are many trades and occupations open to the people of Quebec city. Down on the Gaspe coast the opportunities are limited to farming, lumbering and fishing, and the minister knows that so far as fishing is concerned the Gaspe coast is far behind what it should be. Representations have been made to him time and time again by men of both political parties, and by such an eminent personage as His Excellency the Bishop of Gaspe, who is now taking charge of this question in the interests of his people. He has called the minister's attention repeatedly, I am sure, to the handicaps under which this population labours and to the condition of the fishing industry itself. I think application has been made for the establishment of a biological station down there. I do not like to bring that question up on the Marine estimates, but perhaps I might be allowed to make a reference to it. I should like to know from the minister if anything has been done in regard to the requests made by Bishop Ross and the people generally on the Gaspe coast. The question was discussed no later than yesterday or the day before in the Quebec legislature, and it was contended there that if an agreement could be arrived at between the two governments it would be for the benefit of the population. I have no doubt that the minister is impressed with the importance of the matter and is willing to do what is possible. He will admit that conditions at the present time are not at all satisfactory and that something should be done if we want to help these people to carry on their calling. I am not asking for the establishment of schools above Quebec in that part of the province where there are no fishermen or sailors, but down in that part of the province where the sea is the natural calling of the population. I hope that the minister, who acts in the dual capacity of Minister of Marine and Acting Minister of Fisheries, will come forward and say that the government of which he is

Supply-M arine

a member will give these people some encouragement and say that he is in favour of a progressive policy. If there is a misunderstanding, as it were, between the government at Quebec and the government at Ottawa because the fisheries of the province are under the control of the Quebec government, it is unfortunate that the population has to suffer on that account. It is for that reason that I bring this matter up, in the hope that the minister will be able to give us some encouragement, and tell us that he has considered this question and intends doing something. If he will give us some assurance on that point I am sure that his announce-' ment will be received with great pleasure by the population generally of that peninsula.

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CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU:

I should like to remind my hon. friend from Bonaventure (Mr. Marcil) that we are not at the present time discussing the estimates of the Fisheries department. We are discussing the estimates of the Marine department. However, I have no objection to saying a few words on the question raised by my hon. friend. As he well knows, the fisheries were transferred to the provincial authorities in 1923, I think it was, at the request of the authorities in Quebec. Since then the fisheries have been under their absolute control, but nevertheless we were asked last year by the authorities at Quebec to cooperate and help them in the administration of the fisheries of that province. I had conferences with the Minister of Fisheries of Quebec, one at Quebec and another at Ottawa, and I expressed my strong desire as Acting Minister of Fisheries to help the Quebec authorities in the way suggested by my hon. friend. It was suggested that a French school might be established in Gaspe for the fishermen and to train inspectors of fisheries-a French school, which would be of service to the French fishermen of the province and of New Brunswick and the Magdalen islands. The Quebec government was supposed to supply the building, and two or three French teachers would be supplied by my department. The matter will be discussed further with the provincial authorities. I understand that the Quebec government has sent to Europe two or three young men who had already some knowledge in fishery matters in order that they may perfect their studies abroad. These young men may become the teachers of that school.

I hope to be in a position before long to do something in cooperation with the Fisheries department at Quebec.

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LIB

Charles Marcil

Liberal

Mr. MARCIL:

I wish to thank the minister for his announcement. I know he

iMr. Marcil.]

realizes the importance of this matter. It is all right to have English-speaking schools in the English-speaking districts, but in a population which is largely French it is only fair that the people should be taught in the language in which they are the most competent. I understand the university of Laval has offered the services of young men or even professors who would be qualified to take up this matter and start it along. It is unfortunate that the population should suffer through a lack of cooperation between the two governments. I do not blame either this or the provincial government and I am glad to know that the minister realizes the importance of doing something for these people.

The Magdalen islands, the Gaspe coast, the noirth and south shores of the St. Lawrence, Gloucester, Shippigan and other places along there are inhabited almost solely by fishermen and sailors. If a start could be made at Gaspe, the centre of the whole district, I am sure considerable improvement would be made. The minister would be entitled to a great deal of credit if he continued his cooperation with the Quebec government. I am glad to know that Mr. LaFerte, the Minister of Fisheries of Quebec, has met the minister in this respect. The Bishop of Gaspe has offered his most sincere cooperation, as has the university of Laval. A sincere desire is expressed throughout the whole district that this great part of our national domain in which is carried on one of the great industries of Canada should receive the attention it deserves. These people are poor, they are hard working, they have to face hard winters and are handicapped in many respects. During the last three or four years there has been a marked decline in the lumbering industry and many shanties and mills have been closed throwing thousands of men out of employment. The fishermen are forced to work hard to eke out a living of the barest kind and they are entitled to all the assistance the minister can give.

I hope the minister will continue his efforts to bring about a better understanding. The province of Quebec controls these fisheries but the dominion government expends a lot of money in the improvement of fishing conditions and the distribution of knowledge in connection therewith. This fact was pointed out only a few weeks ago in the legislative council of Quebec by the Honourable Mr. Kelly, who resides at New Carlisle and who is an authority on fishing matters. He pointed out many ways in which agreement could be brought about between the two governments with the cooperation of Bishop

Supply-Marine

Ross. The bishop exercises great influence in the district and he has the interests of the people at heart. Fishing will always remain one of the main occupations of these people and I think some effort should be made to bring this matter to a conclusion as soon as possible.

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CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU:

I have followed the discussions and the debates which have taken place in the legislative council and the house at Quebec and during my trip last summer down the St. Lawrence I visited the fishermen of Quebec and New Brunswick. I had the pleasure also of meeting Monseigneur Ross at Gaspe and 1 was impressed by the great interest which this reverend gentleman is taking in fisheries. I was impressed by his competency to deal with these matters and I told him that this government would cooperate with the provincial government on the lines I have already stated. We are still of the same disposition.

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LIB

Charles Marcil

Liberal

Mr. MAROIL:

I should like to know if the minister has instructed his deputy to go to Quebec, I understand that the premier of Quebec has made the announcement that negotiations were under way and that Mr. Found had been instructed to come down there to learn the views of the Quebec government and see how cooperation could be brought about. Could the minister give me any information in this regard?

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CON

Ernest D'Israeli Smith

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Smith, Cumberland) :

I would draw the attention of the committee to the fact that we are discussing the estimates of the Department of Marine and not the Department of Fisheries.

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LIB

Wilfrid Girouard

Liberal

Mr. GIROUARD (Translation):

Could the hon. minister inform me whether the instruction in those schools is gratuitous?

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CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU (Translation):

The instruction is gratuitous.

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LIB

Wilfrid Girouard

Liberal

Mr. GIROUARD (Translation):

What was the maintenance cost of these schools at Halifax and Yarmouth, last year?

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CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU (Translation):

I can

inform the hon. member what were the salaries paid to professors. At the Yarmouth school, the professor works only half time and receives $810.

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LIB
CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU (Translation) :

A. W.

Hillton. At Quebec the school has only been opened since four months and we have paid out $440 in salary.

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LIB
CON

Alfred Duranleau (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of Marine)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DURANLEAU (Translation):

An

average of sixteen students per month.

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LIB

March 9, 1934