May 26, 1933

CON

Harry Bernard Short

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SHORT:

The explanation is this. I object to the name Evangeline-

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Some hon. MEMBERS:

Why?

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CON

Harry Bernard Short

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SHORT:

Because we lose the identity of our counties, and Evangeline is known historically in but one of the three counties.

I do not want to lose the identity of the counties, and I think the name I propose is much more appropriate. For that reason I move to have the name changed. The second motion was that the constituency of Shelburne-Yarmouth, which has had Clare added to it, be changed in name to include Clare. I move these two amendments.

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LIB

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain

Liberal

Mr. CASGRAIN:

With regard to the question of the observance of pairs, I should like to know whether the government assumes responsibility for the motion in connection with that particular constituency, because it would 'have something to do with our voting on the motion. I have here a copy of the undertaking which is generally signed by members on both sides of the house with respect to pairs. It reads:

We, the undersigned, agree to pair for the present session of the House of Commons upon the following conditions:

Our pair is to be in force on all divisions on measures and resolutions introduced by the government or for which the government assumes responsibility, also on divisions on all measures and resolutions introduced or supported by the official opposition.

The agreement is to apply not only when the Speaker is in the chair, but also when the house is in committee of the whole.

It is therefore of considerable importance whether or not the government assumes responsibility, because, unless hon. gentlemen make special arrangements among themselves, as indicated by the hon. member for Quebec South (Mr. Power), they are relieved of their obligation only if the government does not take the responsibility for any motion that is put. If the motion is moved by a private member hon. gentlemen are free to vote as they please.

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CON

Felix Patrick Quinn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. QUINN:

What objection is there to a private memlber making a motion with regard to the title of a constituency in which he is primarily interested?

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An hon. MEMBER:

No objection.

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CON

Felix Patrick Quinn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. QUINN:

Why should the government take responsibility for it? Are you denying a private member the privilege to which he is entitled? As seconder of the motion moved by the hon. member for Digby-Annapolis (Mr. Short) I ask that it be put now.

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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I think the statement

made by the former Minister of Justice (Mr. Lapointe) as to why he voted indicates clearly the appreciation of the committee of the character of the motion before it. It is a motion of a private member that the word "Evangeline" be stricken out and the words "Digby-Annapolis-Kings" be substituted therefor. It was not in that sense a government motion and I think the hon. member for Quebec East was right in voting for it. His pair with the Minister of Justice (Mr. Guthrie) I think is in the terms of the document read by the chief whip of the Liberal party (Mr. Casgrain). There are pairs which are made on an entirely different basis, such as the pair of the hon. member for Argen-teuil (Sir George Perley) with the hon. member for Rimouski (Sir Eugene Fiset). Their pair is that when only one member is in the house the other does not vote. I am not quite sure of the character of the pair which I have with the right hon. leader of the opposition (Mr. Mackenzie King) but in a general way I do not think either of us would vote if the other was not in the house.

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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I have proceeded on that basis, although I do not think we have had a distinct understanding with respect to private members' motions.

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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I do not think we have

had any differences about that, because we

Redistribution Bill

have both usually been in our places when votes have been taken. Having regard to all the circumstances I think it would be better if the vote were taken over again as a means of ascertaining in a fair and equitable way just what is the position of the committee with respect to the matter.

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Mr. CHAIRMAN@Mr. Gagnon

I submit that once a vote has been taken it cannot be taken a second time.

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

A motion to rescind would be in order. I therefore move that the vote just taken be rescinded.

Motion (Mr. Rhodes) agreed to.

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CON

Harry Bernard Short

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SHORT:

I move, seconded by the

hon. member for Halifax (Mr. Quinn) that number 7 of the schedule for Nova Scotia be amended by eliminating the word "Evangeline" and substituting therefor the words "Digby-Annapolis-Kings."

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LIB

James Layton Ralston

Liberal

Mr. RALSTON:

I am sorry I was not

in the house at the moment when the motion was put. I have not had any direct representations with regard to the wishes of the *citizens in these counties but I have no doubt that the hon. member for Digby-Annapolis (Mr. Short) has taken steps to inform himself. As far as I am concerned I intend to favour the motion of my hon. friend to maintain the names of these counties in order that their identities may not be wiped out. While I am on my feet I might refer to another matter which will be reached in a moment. There is a proposal to change the name "Shelburne-Yarmouth" to "Shelburne-Yarmouth-Clare." As the citizens of Clare are to be added to my constituency I thought I should ascertain itheir wishes in this regard. I find that their wish is that the name "Clare" should appear in the name of the constituency. Therefore, if my hon. friend will make the motion, I am glad to support it. There is a good deal of justifiable pride and sentiment about the retaining of these old names. I may say further that my thought is that one of these days some change may be made and it might be just as well to preserve the identity of the divisions in order to make that change with the least possible dislocation.

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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

I may say that that is

the sole reason that influenced me. All the constituencies with the exception of this one bear the old historic names of counties. It will be observed that the description of this constituency reads as follows:

^ Evangeline consisting of the counties of Kings and Annapolis and that part of the county of Digby exclusive of the municipality of Clare.

That is the reason why I supported the motion.

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LIB

Ernest Lapointe

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

I am sorry if this change is to be made in Nova Scotia. I was pleased when I saw in the report that the fine name of "Evangeline" was to be given to a constituency in a province which has been made famous by its sons and daughters. I am sorry to have to oppose this change and I hope my hon. friend will n-ot take it amiss when I do.

Amendment (Mr. Short) agreed to on division.

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CON

Harry Bernard Short

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SHORT:

I move, seconded by the

hon. member for Halifax (Mr. Quinn) that number eleven of the Nova Scotia schedule be amended by adding the word "Clare" to the words "Shelburne-Yarmouth" making the name of the constituency read "Shelburne-Yarmouth-Clare."

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LIB

Paul Mercier

Liberal

Mr. MERCIER (St. Henri):

I do not

know the first thing about the motion now before us. I wish the chairman would speak loud enough so that we could hear.

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

The new constituency will

be composed of the counties of Shelburne and Yarmouth and that part of the county of Digby contained in the municipality of Clare, and it will be called "Shelbume-Yarmouth-Olare."

Amendment (Mr. Short) agreed to.

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CON

Isaac Duncan MacDougall

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MACDOUGALL:

Before the Nova

Scotia schedule is carried, and without wanting to be at all parochial in this matter, I should like to find out from the members representing Nova Scotia whether or not the facts which I laid before this committee this afternoon are worthy of consideration.

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May 26, 1933