May 5, 1933

CIVIL SERVICE SALARIES


On the orders of the day: *


LIB

Edgar-Rodolphe-Eugène Chevrier

Liberal

Mr. E. R. E. CHEVRIER (Ottawa):

I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Rhodes). It is this: When will those employees in the government' service who have not been paid receive the cheque they should have received on the first of this month? *

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE SALARIES
Permalink
CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. E. N. RHODES (Minister of Finance):

I could answer that question with greater accuracy, Mr. Speaker, if I knew when the interim supply bill, which is now in the Senate, will be passed. I would anticipate, however, that it will pass the Senate on Tuesday night, and we might have royal assent Wednesday so that the money would be available to pay the salaries in question.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE SALARIES
Permalink

WAYS AND MEANS

INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT


The house, in committee of ways and means, resumed from Wednesday, May 3, consideration of the resolution of the Minister of Finance to amend the Income War Tax Act, Mr. MacDonald (Cape Breton South) in the chair.


LIB

Robert McKenzie

Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE (Assiniboia):

Paragraph 3 of this resolution reads: '

That the exemption for a dependent child or grandchild be $400.

This makes no reference to age. Has the age limit been changed at all?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

There has been no change with regard to the age.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

Robert McKenzie

Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE (Assiniboia):

I believe the age limit is twenty-one years. Under pre-j

sent conditions I know many people who have educated their sons and daughters, but those children are unalble to find work to-day, and though they are over the age of twenty-one years they are still at home with their parents. It costs just as much to feed and clothe a boy or girl of twenty-two, twenty-three or twenty-four as it does a child of eighteen or nineteen, and under present conditions, when these young people cannot find anything to do and their parents are compelled to support them, it seems rather unfair that they do not get any exemption in regard to income tax.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

I think it must be borne in mind that we have gone a considerable distance as it is. In the earlier stages the exemption applied only to those under the age of sixteen. It was then changed to eighteen and subsequently, whether wisely or not, to the full age of twenty-one. I can understand and sympathize with the cases to which my hon. friend has referred, but I think it must be borne in mind that we must legislate in matters of this kind for at least approximately normal conditions, and we should not put into a statute of this kind methods which are designed to meet a peculiar and abnormal and, we hope, transient situation.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain

Liberal

Mr. CASGRAIN:

The Minister says that we should legislate for normal conditions, but it is obvious that the government is now resorting to certain taxes to meet conditions that are not normal. There are people in this country with children over the age of twenty-one, who very often find these younger members of the family coming back home when they cannot find work, with the result that the parents have to look after them. In many cases young people are charged with the responsibility of taking care of relatives such as aunts, grandmothers and others. Surely we are facing abnormal conditions to-day, and in taxing incomes the minister should bear this fact in mind, all the more when we see that in the province of Ontario and in other parts of Canada as well the taxpayers have to pay income tax not only to the dominion but to the provincial authorities as well. I think the minister should give this matter a little more consideration and recognize that we are faced with abnormal conditions at the present time.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

The exemption in respect

to children is based on the presumption that they are dependent, and I think it can be said with equal force that a child over

Income War Tax Act

twenty-one years of age is presumably not dependent. Even if a law could be devised which would permit of exemptions in the case of those over twenty-one years of age, it would be opening the door to very wide abuses with respect to many children over the age of twenty-one who might be alleged to be dependent but who in fact were not so. I think we have gone as far as we ought to go in limiting the age to twenty-one.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

James J. Donnelly

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DONNELLY:

Under section 4 it is

provided that the exemption for a dependent parent, grandparent, brother or sister shall be the actual amount expended by the taxpayer up to a maximum exemption of S400 for each such dependent person. I would point out to the minister that a man might have a son of twenty-five or thirty who because of physical incapacity might be absolutely dependent upon him. Why not make some provision with regard to such people?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

There is a distinction

between parents or grandparents and children who are dependent because of physical disability, but a vigorous boy or girl of twenty-one is not to be considered in the same category. The presumption is that a child over twenty-one years of age is not dependent on the parents for sustenance.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

James J. Donnelly

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DONNELLY:

I notice that it is

covered elsewhere.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

I am informed that if the child is physically or mentally incapacitated the exemption holds.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
UFA

George Gibson Coote

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. COOTE:

Will the minister explain

for the benefit of the committee and of the people of this country the principle on which this schedule has been worked out. Would it be correct to say that it is on the principle that the rate of taxation should increase with the increase in the income itself?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

The schedule as set out

has been evolved as the result of experience not only in its application but in its effect upon those who pay. It is not worked out on the principle of a percentage increase on income but on the basis of the dollars paid by the individual or the corporation as the case may be. We cannot overlook the relative rates of income tax in Canada compared with the relative rates in the republic to the south of us, and in that connection I would point out that up to a substantial proportion in the various grades in the schedule it will be found that the total income tax payable under these rates is higher than that which obtains at the moment in the United States.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
UFA

George Gibson Coote

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. COOTE:

In the first few items

in the schedule the rate increases apparently one per cent with each increase of one thousand dollars of income, but by the time you reach the last items in the schedule the increase of one per cent in the rate occurs with each increase of fifty thousand dollars in income. I think the principle contained in the first part of the schedule might have been continued right through, that is to say, increasing the rate one per cent on each increase of one thousand dollars in income as in the first part of the schedule. That would be much fairer to the people generally. I do not see why a lower rate of increase in the tax is carried out ia the schedules affecting the higher income. I suggest that the minister should not follow the example of the United States; we ought to draw up a complete income tax schedule to suit our own Canadian needs, and it would be better to impose a higher tax on incomes in excess of one hundred thousand, dollars. If this were done we could do away with a good many taxes that are so oppressive at the present time, such as the sales tax discussed the other day. The tax now before us is the best place to make increases. The principle contained in the act which the Prime Minister introduced two or three years ago but later withdrew, of increasing the rate of tax one per cent with each one thousand dollars increase of income, would be the ideal method, continuing that until it reached ninety-nine per cent on the ninety-ninth thousand dollars of income. Let us adopt that as an emergency measure to meet some of the deficits of the country. If we are to increase taxation that is the form it should take.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAK TAX ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink

May 5, 1933