May 2, 1933

BANKING AND COMMERCE


Fifth report of the select standing committee on banking and commerce.-Mr. Matthews.


PETITION

LIB

Edgar-Rodolphe-Eugène Chevrier

Liberal

Mr. E. R. E. CHEVRIER (Ottawa):

I beg to move:

That the petition of the Genter Thickener Company praying for the passing of an act to revive and restore patent No. 209,565, together with the report of the clerk of petitions thereon, be referred to the select standing 53719-283J

committee on standing orders for the purpose of considering the suspension of standing order 92 in relation thereto.

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Motion agreed to. GRADING OF HAY AND STRAW On the orders of the day:


IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. A. W. NEILL (Comox-Albemi):

I wish to draw attention to an error that occurred in yesterday's proceedings. It will be found at page 4474 of Hansard. Bill No. 22, respecting the inspection and grading of hay and straw, was in committee and I endeavoured to speak on the second and third sections but was told by the chairman that that was out of order because everything had been passed previously except the preamble. The preamble was agreed to and that is all that was done, but the bill went through third reading and was passed. I now find that yesterday was the first occasion on which this bill was in committee, so not only was I deprived of the opportunity of speaking on it but this house was put in the position of passing a bill consisting of only half a dozen formal words in the preamble. If ever litigation arises or prosecutions occur under the act it will produce a rather interesting situation.

WORLD'S FAIR CHICAGO On the orders of the day:

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LIB

William Daum Euler

Liberal

Hon. W. D. EULER (North Waterloo):

I would ask the Minister of Trade and Commerce whether the government has received an invitation to take part in the so-called world's fair in Chicago, and if so whether the invitation was accepted, and if not why not.

Topic:   PETITION
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. H. H. STEVENS (Minister of Trade and Commerce):

The two railways in Canada in conjunction with the Department of Trade and Commerce, under which exhibitions come, are taking a reasonable economic part in that fair.

Topic:   PETITION
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WAYS AND MEANS

BEATTHARNOIS POWER PROJECT-REORGANIZATION OF CORPORATION


Hon. E. N. RHODES (Minister of Finance) moved that the house go into committee of ways and means.


UFA

Edward Joseph Garland

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. E. J. GARLAND (Bow River):

Mr. Speaker, before the motion is voted on, I desire once more to raise a question of supreme importance to the people of Canada, and particularly to the people of the provinces of Quebec and Ontario. I wish for a short time to discuss the Beauhamois situation with particular reference to the proposed reorgan-

44S6

Beauhamois Power Project

ization, the effect of which unquestionably will be to turn over to the Holt interests this tremendously valuable project.

If hon. members have had the opportunity of studying the proposed reorganization they will doubtless have been as surprised and astounded as I have been that the government has permitted the matter to go to the point which it has now reached. I say surprised and astounded because on a previous occasion when an even better proposal wag submitted this government would not approve of it and the proposal fell through.

The present capitalization of the Beau-harnois Power Corporation is briefly as follows:

First mortgage bonds, none of them publicly issued but used for the purpose of collateral security with the banks and to secure this government for its guarantee of advances and to secure the banks for their advances, amounting in all to $22,495,000.

Collateral trust six per cent bonds, the original issue due October 1,1959, amount $30,000,000. These were subscribed for by the public generally but principally by large interests in eastern Canada. Common stock was issued at that time of no par value to the amount of 1,720,000 shares.

The proposed new capitalization of the whole set-up is as follows:

First mortgage 5i per cent bonds due 1973, $39,332,000.

General mortgage five per cent bonds which are to replace the present collateral trust bonds, $36,000,000. Hon. members will there notice an increase of $6,000,000, which I shall explain in a moment.

Common stock of no par value, 762,000 shares.

It should be kept in mind that the possessors of the new shares will control the whole concern. Up to the present time the bondholders are the people whose money has contributed to the construction of the project to date, and that is practically the only money that has been used by the concern other than the amounts advanced by the banks and guaranteed by the government, amounting to $16,060,000 and the $6,000,000 advanced by the banks direct, or a total of about $22,000,000. The banks are apparently to be asked, and I presume may already have agreed to accept, $24,000,000 of the new issue of first mortgage 5i per cent bonds for their $22,000,000 of advances. As to whether transactions of that kind are permissible under the Bank Act or not I am not going to discuss at the moment, but I do submit that it is quite improper under ordinary conditions for the banks to advance money on long term bonds of the

IMr. E. J. Garland.]

character of which these bonds will be. Secondly, I have referred already to the replacement of the original collateral trust 6 per cent bonds of $30,000,000, by the issue of $36,000,000 bearing 5 per cent. The $36,000,000 is to enable the original bondholders to receive for each thousand dollar bond a new bond of $1,200. This of course has been held out to them as a most attractive feature, but the facts are that there goes with the new bond an agreement that all interests will be waived for over four years. And presumably the $200 increase over their equity is for the purpose of reimbursing them for interest not paid up to this date,-for no interest has been paid on the bond.

With regard to the stock, it is interesting to notice that there is a provision made for the replacement of the entire original stock issue, roughly 1,720,000 shares. The actual issue was 1,800,000 shares, but the difference of 80.000 shares is that which ex-Senator Mc-Dougald was recommended, advised, instructed or coerced into returning for cancellation. Personally I have no objection to the transaction. I think it was quite proper that they have been restored, because they had been used for the purpose of paying for that quite worthless concern known as the Sterling Corporation. That leaves 1,720,000 shares. The new share issue is as follows: 172,000 shares to replace the 1,720,000. That is on the basis of one for ten, and should dispose of the matter. It might be all right if it did, but the fact is that it does not. There is an additional issue as follows: 150,000 shares to go to the present debenture holders. This 150,000 shares does not reflect to any fair degree the investment which they have made in the concern. In addition to that there is a straight grant of 200,000 shares to the Holt interests, to the Montreal Light, Heat and Power Company. For what? For agreeing to underwrite an issue of $13,500,000. For that they are to receive 200,000 shares of the new stock issue. On top of that there is to be a bonus issue of

240,000 shares to accompany the sale of the $13,500,000 of bonds which the Holt interests are to underwrite. At the present time the debenture holders and the stockholders will find considerable difficulty in being able to finance the new issue directly. So, sales of debentures to the public are not likely to be very large-that is, of the new debenture issue. The result will be that of the new $13,500,000, most of it will be subscribed, probably, by the Montreal Light, Heat and Power Company, in return for which they will receive the proportionate amount of shares. At the present time, because of their holdings in the Jacques

Beauharnois Power Project

Cartier Company they will have a complete set up right at the start of over 270,000 of the

700,000 shares. And with their other holdings, and those of their associates, will have complete control of the company.

At this stage I wish to register my unalterable opposition to the Holt interests being permitted to secure control of this corporation. Let me suggest to the Prime Minister and to hon. members that when Mr. Tasche-reau and his government introduced the charter for the Beauharnois Light, Heat and Power Company, and put it through the house he urged as one of the reasons to justify his action that it was necessary to create a competing factor in the power market. Now, with the acquiescence of this administration and with more than the approval of that same Quebec government to which I have just referred, this competitive factor is being completely eliminated, and the Holt interests are being made supreme. If hon. members will recollect the debate on the Beauharnois power project they will remember that it is the largest power development known at the present time in North America. It has a potential development of something like two million horsepower; it exceeds either the Muscle shoals or Boulder dam projects in its importance and the extent of power capable of being developed therefrom. The owners or possessers of that power development will become, with their collective holdings, the greatest power trust in North America. Let that sink in. I ask hon. members if that does not imply the biggest power trust in . the world. Are members of this house, who represent the people, to sit quiescent while the governments, provincial and federal, permit the creation of so powerful a trust in connection with a natural resource which is so essential to public welfare, as hydro electric energy ? I for one do not purpose remaining silent.

At the outset I mentioned that this is not the first proposed agreement or reorganization that has been submitted. Mr. White, vicepresident of the company, announced to a meeting of bondholders on June 10, last, that Montreal Light, Heat and Power Consolidated had made an offer some time in July of 1931. In his report he states that:

Under these conditions we felt it would be possible during August and earlv September to sell first mortgage bonds. No stipulations were proposed affecting the standing of holders of either the debentures or shares.

In other words the original set up in respect of the debenture holders and shares would remain unaffected. He continued:

We were, however, unable to make headway in this direction as the proposal did not

commend itself at that time to the Dominion government.

What has brought about the change of heart on the part of this government? If the proposal at that time was not acceptable, why was it not acceptable? And, on the other hand, why as the proposal now offered acceptable? That implies two things, by the way. It implies, first of all, that the government has been exercising, as I can show, a very powerful directional interest in the Beauharnois development. It has gone to a point which implies, dn their action, the right to direct, the right to control, the right to effect. I ask if they are going to remain quiescent in this matter. Are they going to permit the formation of this huge power trust in the hands of a group of people, whose records stand clearer before the people of Canada to-day than they have at any other time, as a pirating group of unscrupulous promoters and financiers, whose transactions involved the people of Canada in losses, it has been estimated, running into sums which would approximate the national debt.

Then, going back to the question of reorganization, may I submit to the government that even the debenture holders are not being fairly treated. On investment, they have up to this date, contributed by far the greatest share of funds for development. Under the new proposal they are now asked not only to forego their interest for four and a half years, without compensation, but without any enhancement at the end of that time for the contributions they have made to the concern. Of course, even in the beginning, as is clear to any student of this concern, these debenture bonds were not as represented. Just about as slick a deal as you can imagine was put over on the people. They were not as powerful, even, as the common stock, for these bonds bear less than the common stock, receiving only a portion of the income pledged which the common stock might receive. So, looking at it from the point of view of the debenture holders I submit the following, namely, that there has been subscribed to date roughly $30,000,000. We have to make an allowance for the commission paid, making the actual cash subscription 127,000,000. No income is to be received for four and a half years, or until October, 1937-if then. The interest, therefore, will amount to, it is estimated, about $2,700,000, which is never to be paid. The interest that the debenture holders must forego amounts to about $8,100,000 which, again, may never be paid. Five per cent compound interest on the interest losses amounts to about $1,926,000; or the debenture holders' contribution at the time of com-

Beauhamois Power Project

pletion of the first stage of this project will have amounted on paper to $42,726,000 or 54-7 per cent of the total capital investment.

The common stock that under the new proposal is to be allotted to these people who have contributed 54-7 per cent is only 19 per cent-to be accurate, 19-69 per cent. The Dominion government has contributed to date a guarantee amounting to $16,000,000 or about 20-23 per cent of the total capitalization. They are to receive none of the common stock. The banks have contributed approximately $6,-

500,000 or about 8-22 per cent, also they are to receive none of the common stock. The province of Quebec has contributed $1,352,000 or 1-71 per cent; they too will receive none of the common stock. But Montreal Light, Heat and Power, if they purchase all the new issue will have contributed by -the end of that period $12,480,000 or 15-77 per cent and will receive in shares a controlling interest. The common shareholders' contribution at this time is approximately nothing, the proceeds of sales of these shares were not funds that came to the treasury of the Beauhamois. Any cash transactions that took place were purely open market transactions as between individuals. The common shares to be allotted are 172,000. So collectively the common shareholders at the present time plus Montreal Light, Heat and Power control together 80-31 per cent of the total share issue.

It has been alleged that $13,500,000 will be required to complete the project to the point of production of 500,000 horse-power. I have consulted others on this matter, I have even taken the trouble to have inquiries made of Mr. Sweezey himself. It is contended that that is a gross overestimate, that it will not cost over $9,000,000 to complete the contract. So there is an overissue of bonds authorized amounting to somewhere aibout $5,000,000. Attention was drawn to that in a public statement made by H. G. Pepall in Toronto the other day, as published. in the Globe of Friday, April 28. I do not wish to refer to it at greater length than simply to quote the following:

The official figures therefore show that some $5,000,000 more than is actually required is being raised, or the official estimates of construction of $14,446,000 are in error to the extent of 33 per cent.

The Prime Minister on one occasion in this house gave voice to sentiments that were very close to the views held by faon. gentlemen in this comer. I ask him once more to remember them. I ask the house to listen to them. Speaking on May 18, 1932, the Prime Minister said:

I believe that there is no government in Canada that does not regret to-day that it has parted with some of these natural resources for considerations wholly inadequate and on terms that do not reflect the principle under which the crown holds the natural resources in trust for all the people.

That outstanding statement of his-I would say it was the most brilliant and accurate statement he made last year-while it may be charged by some people to verge on socialism, nevertheless is in my opinion absolutely accurate, and enunciates a principle which should be applied to such projects as the one which I am discussing. This project is not one which concerns merely the province of Quebec or the province of Ontario; it concerns the whole Dominion of Canada. It is a project involving construction on a river which is not a provincial river, or merely an interprovincial river, but an international river. The government has power over it in connection with navigation rights, it has power over it under the British North America Act in connection with the power that results from the development of a canal, and it also has the further power of doing what it did last year in respect to the canal, declaring it to be a work to the general advantage of Canada. There is no difficulty with regard to the government recognizing its rights to take over a project so enormously important to the people. No one knows better than the Prime Minister the tremendous influence of electrical energy on our industrial development, on domestic facilities, and on the scientific building up of the nation. He has himself on a previous occasion referred eloquently and fervently to the immense importance of power to a nation such as ours. We may well be proud of it, for as far as I can find out we have if not the first, the second greatest power resources of any nation, having at the present time a power development already established approximating 6,300,000 horse-power, the last figures I could secure. By the way, each horse-power of electrical energy it is estimated can do the work of ten human beings. We therefore have in hydro-electrical energy, just one source of artificial power, the equivalent of 63,000,000 human beings, artificial human beings, it is true, ready to go to work for us, provided that power can be reserved for the people, to do their work for them effectively and efficiently, without overloading them with costs as a result of private development.

I would ask the government if they do not think it is high time to make either a private investigation on behalf of the government itself, or once more a public investigation, to

Beauhamois Power Project

uncover the truth, all the truth, with regard to certain matters which have become known in the last two years, or better dtill in the last year. A new concern has been discovered that apparently has been interested in this Beauharnois business from the beginning or shortly after the beginning. It is called the Jacques Cartier Company. This company was created apparently by the group who held shares in the original company. The Jacques Cartier Company consists approximately of the following: Dominion Securities Limited; AVood, Gundy and Company, Limited; Montreal Light, Heat and Power Consolidated; McDougald and Henry, and Newman, Sweezey and Company. Their holdings in the pool are reported to be approximately as follows:

Shares

Dominion Securities 115,000

Wood, Gundy & Co 175,000

That 175,000 has since been transferred to Montreal Light, Heat and Power.

Shares

Montreal Light, Heat and Power. 320,000

These were secured as a result of purchasing the interests of F. P. Jones.

Shares

McDougald and Henry 220,000

Newman, Sweezey & Co 120,000

So that is clear that the Montreal Light, Heat and Power have the controlling interest, possessing wed over 51 per cent of the stock.

This concern has a peculiar history in two respects; first, in respect of Senator MoDougald's payment on behalf of the Sterling Corporation. Perhaps that is not the correct way to put it, but it seems that when the government instructed Doctor McDougald to return the moneys paid-or would you call it the equity given for the securities?-he had

30,000 shares in the pool. The balance had to be found. The balance was found in the pool, I think-that is something I want the government to tell us. Has Doctor McDougald paid back the 80,000 shares, and have they been cancelled? I cannot get the information on that. The only information I have in regard to the matter is from the Financial Post of March 18, 1933, which brought to my attention for the first time the existence of this Jacques Cartier Company. The Financial Post relates that there was some trouble in regard to this question of transfer of the 80,000 shares of Beauhamois A stock to be surrendered and cancelled. I do not want to refer to it at length, but I hope that when the government replies, a statement will be made as to whether this block of shares has been cancelled, because until the 80,000 shares of class A stock

issued have been cancelled it is held to be unlikely that any plan or reorganization will meet with approval at Ottawa.

But there is a further fact in connection with this company that is of concern. It seems that the Holt interests, anticipating a development sooner or later on the Soulanges section of the St. Lawrence river, made application for and received a charter from the Quebec government for the construction of a canal. This was well known to the late government; the matter was discussed at an inquiry held in Ottawa on the application of the Beauhamois Light, Heat and Power Company on January 30, 1929. Mention was made of this Soulanges charter, and at page 119 of the report on the application of the Beauharnois company this evidence appears:

Mr. McCarthy rose apparently with the idea that he owned the Soulanges canal.

Mr. McCarthy: No, no.

Mr. Geoffrion: He said, "We own a canal." The canal he owns is in his clients' dreams. The position of_ these particular clients of my learned friend is an extraordinary one. They have no grant from Quebec. They have a charter. Anybody can get a charter; charters go floating around. They have nothing but a charter; they own nothing, and they are asking you to refuse us an approval from the navigation point of view of plans for the development of whatever that is ours for seventy-five years, your jurisdiction being only over navigation. simply because they have a man who would like to develop our property himself. I suggest it is the same as if when I am asked for a building permit in order to build on my own land another member of the municipality, one of my neighbours, were to say, "No, I want you to permit me to build on that man's land instead of himself." It is about the same thing.

I direct attention to that evidence simply to indicate that this Soulanges interest possessed, as Mr. Geoffrion said, absolutely nothing but a charter. Yet I am informed that they were able to transfer that for apparently its nuisance value, for one hundred thousand shares of class A stock in Beauharnois,^ or its equivalent, held by the Jacques Cartier company. I submit to the government, Mr. Speaker, that if it was right- as I contend it was-to request Doctor McDougald to return the eighty thousand shares that he was coerced into paying out to the Sterling corporation, it would be right for this government to insist that this block of shares that was transferred for property that did not even have the appearance of right that the Sterling corporation possessed, should be returned to the company also. This Soulanges canal and power project, this Holt project, which now is a factor in giving them control of the stock, in effect had no value or rights whatever beyond the

Beauharnois Power Project

possession of a charter, and as Mr. Geoffrion said charters were floating around, I might say, like thistledown on a summer day.

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IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

Floating on water.

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Subtopic:   BEATTHARNOIS POWER PROJECT-REORGANIZATION OF CORPORATION
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UFA

Edward Joseph Garland

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

Yes, or

floating on water, as my hon. friend from Comox-Alberni (Mr. Neill) suggests. The chief reasons why I urge upon the government serious consideration of the advisability of declaring this to be a work in the national interest and expropriating it for the people of Canada are not only because of the enormous power development and the control over industry and people that this entails but also because of the gigantic profits that can be made out of it under its present financial set-up, and further because it concerns the whole question of the waterways. I submit that if the government permits the private development of the Beauharnois section, which is the richest section of the whole river for power purposes, first because of the engineering features and secondly because of the quantity of power that can be developed there, they are going to leave the Lachine section, in which the development of power is not economically profitable, requiring an enormous capital in comparison to the amount of power involved, to the government to develop. It will mean that sooner or later, in carrying out the waterways project, this government will have to undertake the development of the Lachine section itself at the expense of the taxpayers, while the Montreal crowd, the private interests, get away with gigantic profits, which would be more than sufficient to finance the entire Canadian share of the waterways project.

Let us consider that for just a moment. It is estimated by some that it will cost about $13,000,000 to complete this power project, though as I have said, well known engineers have suggested that it will not cost more than $9,500,000 at most. It has been estimated also that the completion of the entire power project will cost in all about $70,000,000. The earnings on contracts already entered into will amount to about $6,000,000 a year as soon as the power is available. The actual operating costs, on the basis of about $2.50 per horse power, will amount to about $750,000 a year, so there will be a net operating revenue of $5,250,000. It is also expected, as we might have suspected from our experience with the hydro-electric in Ontario, that there will be a surplus of power over and above the estimate made on the water flow, and in this case the surplus is estimated at about 100,000 horsepower. At present there is in existence in the

province of Quebec a measure which permits the exportation of part or all of this power. It will be seen that this additional 100,000 horse-power is clear velvet, and the prospective earnings on which are estimated at $1,100,000, making a total net operating income of $6,350,000 per year. Interest charges will amount to $2,S00,(KK), so the net profits may be estimated at $3,550,000 per annum.

Now let us take the other side of the case. Let us suppose that it costs $18,700,000 to complete the canal for navigation, and remember .that work is not to be done by the Beauharnois power corporation at all. It must be done now by this government, which has taken over the canal; it has .the deed in its hands and the agreement has been signed. That $18,700,000 must be contributed by the Dominion government for the construction of locks, lights, services and so on in connection with navigation. A new development has taken place, however, and this is most extraordinary. The canal which was taken over last year amid such applause is now worthless; you cannot move a boat up it. You can barely float a light barge on that canal. Why? That is so because it has been found necessary to put in a dam, and at the present time in the Beauharnois canal, about three and a half miles from its inlet at lake St. Francis, near the location of the first railway bridge, there is a dam which cost about $200,000, a permanent dam that cannot be removed. Let us understand the significance of that fact. It means that when the time comes for this canal to become a part of the great waterways project this government will have to build a new spur canal in order to get around this darn. A few days ago I had a conversation on this subject with one of the chief engineers of the department, and he told me that it will cost at least $4,000,000 to build this new canal, with a check gate for the purpose of creating stall water on the upper side. With regard to the feasibility of the project from this point of view, those who have studied canal propositions know that there must be a certain radius of curvature. This canal is built on the basis of a five thousand foot curvature, and if that is not maintained seagoing vessels of considerable length and weight will have difficulty negotiating the necessary turns or curves. If, therefore, the inilet or outlet of the new canal required as a result of the building of .this dam does not fit in with the needs of vessels of this kind the entire canal may be ruined forever. I am really convinced that the engineer's estimates in connection with what will be required to make it navigable are conservative. I believe .that the

Beauharnois Power Project

cost will not be $4,000,000 but in excess of that sum, but for the sake of our discussion we will take the figure he suggests, namely, $4,000,000. You must then add the $4,000,000 to the $18,700,000 already required.

I come now to the Lachine section. The report of the joint board of engineers, which I have under my hand, and other documents as well, have indicated an estimated cost of the Laohine section of $53,000,000-that is, simply to make it part of the great waterways scheme-or a grand total cost of $75,000,000 in order to make this part of the river navigable under the waterways scheme. I submit that if the Dominion government would expropriate this concern and issue bonds required for the construction of the rest of the canal, at the same rate of interest, they would make sufficient profit on the present contracts alone, plus this 100,000 horse power, to pay for the entire construction, and on top of that have a net profit of $750,000, which by the way might be applied to the deficits in connection with the Montreal harbour project or something of that kind. These figures are based on the completion of the power project up to the first stage of 500,000 horse power.

I have already intimated that under private ownership there is no security for the people of the province of Quebec. There is no guarantee any longer of even competitive rates, for they are left at the mercy of the Montreal Light, Heat and Power Company and its associates-an inhuman position, I contend, in face of the rates they are charging in comparison with those that obtain under the provincially owned hydro electric project of Ontario. Remember, I am not proposing that the government should go into the business of distributing power, but I am urging that it should take over this enterprise, which is the natural heritage of the people, and develop it as part of the great waterway system, and it should then undertake to sell power to whoever may distribute it in the province, exactly on the principle of the hydro electric of Ontario. Private interests are developing and selling power at $15 per horse power and I am satisfied that it could be sold, as I am informed it is now about to be sold to United States interests, at $12 per horse power or less. I have no doubt that is possible under public ownership; I am absolutely convinced of it from information I have secured in the matter.

I am definitely and unalterably opposed to the export of power. When a few years ago this question came up first, Mr. Taschereau accepted the idea of the Beauharnois Light, Heat and Power Company coming into existence. I have already stated two reasons why, and I wish now to refer once again to one of those reasons; it was to supply the power requirements in the province of Quebec. In other words, it was urged that there was not at that time sufficient power and apparently Mr. Taschereau wanted this done. Now note that before this power becomes fully available-only a small part of it is now available -Mr. Taschereau comes forward and urges that they should be permitted to export power because they have too much. Surely that is perfectly absurd. I submit further that once Canada exports power it can never get it back again. You can never permit the establishment of municipalities, industries, plants, homes and so on on a natural resource upon which people will depend so utterly, and hope eventually to recover that resource. You cannot do it short of war, and I protest most vigorously against the proposal that the provincial government of Quebec, apparently with the acquiescence of this government, should permit the export of power.

I am not alone in my opinions in this regard, or at least I hope I am not. Certainly at one time I was not, for in this house the Right Hon. Arthur Meighen himself, in the year 1925, when this question of the export of power came up in connection with Carillon, used language which I should be very proud to use in this matter. He said:

The asset that Canada has in its water-power could not be appreciated by any man however gifted, even four years ago, to say nothing of sixteen or twenty years ago, as it can be appreciated to-day. . . . There may be American capitalists who will sign agreements that the power is withdrawable; but if they do, they know- it is withdrawable on paper, but that never in actual fact can it be withdrawn.

He had some other trenchant things to say about it:

Now the fact is that an application as astounding in its audacity as any ever presented has been before the government for months, lying in the government files, and lying there without repudiation, without one negative word going to those who are behind the application.

I should like to know whether those words are not absolutely applicable to-day, whether this government has not had in its hands for weeks a permit for the export of power. In answer to my question some weeks past there was a clear evasion of the matter so far as I could see, and I hope the Prime Minister will reply to that point. I submit to him that he has no right to consent to the export of power from this dominion, not even on the yearly basis.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   BEATTHARNOIS POWER PROJECT-REORGANIZATION OF CORPORATION
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LIB

Paul Mercier

Liberal

Mr. MERCIER (St. Henri) :

Isn't the hydro electric of Ontario exporting power?

Beauhamois Power Project

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
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UFA

Edward Joseph Garland

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

Yes, it is exporting power because it took over a concern which was under contract to export power before the hydro took it over; that is all; it does not export power itself.

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LIB

James Malcolm

Liberal

Mr. MALCOLM:

Yes, it does.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
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UFA

Edward Joseph Garland

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

My information is that it does not.

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LIB

James Malcolm

Liberal

Mr. MALCOLM:

Yes, it does.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   BEATTHARNOIS POWER PROJECT-REORGANIZATION OF CORPORATION
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UFA

Edward Joseph Garland

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

In any case, that does not detract from my argument, because I contend that it should not be done. Ontario should not be allowed to do it any more than Quebec, and this government has a right to prevent it in either case. There is a definite responsibility on the government t.o prevent this being done.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   BEATTHARNOIS POWER PROJECT-REORGANIZATION OF CORPORATION
Permalink

May 2, 1933