April 28, 1933

CON

Armand Renaud La Vergne (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN:

Not in this case.

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY BILL
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

Oh yes.

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CON

Armand Renaud La Vergne (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN:

The right hon, gentleman is mistaken. Under the agreement we have taken each subsection of the bill as an individual section; that is what we have been doing so far.

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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I never have so understood it.

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CON

Armand Renaud La Vergne (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN:

Therefore I never put the question, "Is section 4 adopted as amended?", because we have considered each subsection as an individual section. I am in the hands of the committee, of course, but I am ruling that the amendment is out of order.

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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

May I explain this point.

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CON

Armand Renaud La Vergne (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN:

I understand perfectly

the position taken by the right hon. member but I cannot allow hon. members to speak twice on the point.

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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I had not

finished speaking; you, Mr. Chairman, interrupted me and I sat down.

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CON

Armand Renaud La Vergne (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN:

I am sorry.

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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

The point I wish to make is this, that if the amendment moved by the hon. member for West Middlesex had been adopted, the trustees would have had to give their entire time to the work. Under those circumstances I submit the amendment moved by the hon. member for Prince probably would not have been deemed necessary. But the subamendment of the hon. member for West Middlesex having been voted down, it is only proper that in those circumstances the committee should have a right to say whether there should be five rather than three trustees. That is a perfectly proper subamendment, as it has not been definitely decided that the three trustees are to give all their time to their work. We have taken subsections, one after the other for the sake of convenience, and the avoidance of unnecessary discussion. But there has always been the right so far as I have understood, to move any amendments we wished to the section as a whole.

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CON

Robert James Manion (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

Since we have all spoken

twice, may I say another word?

C.N.R.-C.P.R. Bill

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):

Why

not? You can speak as often as you like in committee.

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CON

Robert James Manion (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

In regard to section 6 we carried subsections 3, 5, 6, 7, and 8. The only parts left for discussion are subsections 1, 2 and 4. The same is true in a number of other clauses. The only provision in subsection 1 of section 4, with which we are now dealing, is for the appointment of three trustees, and their replacement of the directors. If we can pass a subclause then deal with another subclause, then go back and discuss again the original clause, I do not know where we will get.

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CON

Armand Renaud La Vergne (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN:

The hon. member who moved the subamendment could have moved it on subsection 1, but he did not do so. I am bound by the agreement of the committee, which to me is a ruling of the house, to rule that the amendment is out of order.

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LIB

Alfred Edgar MacLean

Liberal

Mr. MacLEAN:

The committee is dealing in a very arbitrary manner with my subamendment.

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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Order.

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LIB
LIB

Alfred Edgar MacLean

Liberal

Mr. MacLEAN:

When I was speaking to

the amendment moved by the hon. member for West Middlesex-

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CON

Robert James Manion (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

Mr. Chairman, I draw to

your attention the fact that the hon. member, according to your ruling, is out of order.

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CON

Armand Renaud La Vergne (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN:

I must be tolerant.

Some hon. members have spoken twice or three time's to the point of order although I have decided they should not. Under those circumstances I believe I should hear the hon. member.

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April 28, 1933