Mr. HEENAN:

Can the minister tell us

whether or not this government intends bringing into effect a national system of old age pensions and administering it federally?

Mr. GORDON:

Of course, constitutional

questions might arise between the Dominion government and the provinces if the Dominion government adopted that course. At the moment I am not in a position to answer that question.

Mr. ILSLEY:

Has the government made

any estimate of how much it would cost this government to pay old age pensions all over the Dominion of Canada out of the federal treasury?

Mr. GORDON:

That would depend in

large measure upon the number of those eligible by reason of age who took advantage of the legislation. I am afraid it would be difficult to hazard an opinion as to what it would cost.

Mr. ILSLEY:

No estimate has been made?

Mr. GORDON:

I am told that there was

an estimate made in so faa- as it could be made. Unfortunately I have not the figures before me, but I shall be glad to give them to my hon. friend.

Mr. ILSLEY:

I am asking now for the figures. I should not think it would be very difficult to make an approximate estimate of the cost. The government could take its experience in the provinces which have adopted old age pensions and make the necessary allowance for the increased number of those [DOT] over seventy years of age in the eastern provinces-because I believe there is an increased number there-and in that way arrive at an estimate of the cost. I was wondering if the government had not done that. I say that because, as the minister probably knows, this was one of the live questions in Nova Scotia in the election of 1930. I do not suppose there was any canvass that was responsible for getting more votes for the 'Conservative party in Nova Scotia than the definite promise to pay old age pensions in full out of the federal treasury. Those of us who went through that election have a vivid recollection of the strength of the canvass that was made against us because we were supporting a policy of a fifty-fifty contribution as against a policy of one hundred per cent contribution out of the federal treasury. The Prime Minister himself wrote a letter which went to a very large proportion of the aged people in Nova Scotia in which he definitely promised that if returned to power his government would see that old age pensions would >be paid in full out of the federal treasury. But the government has not done it, and so far as I know they have not any present intention of doing it.

Mr. CASGRAIN:

Another broken promise.

Mr. ILSLEY:

It appears to be and was a cold-blooded violation of an exceedingly definite preelection promise.

Mr. YOUNG:

Did the people believe them?

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yes, a great many of them voted that way on the strength of that promise. If possible I should like to get from the minister such an estimate, if one has been made. I should also like him to tell me, if

Supply-Labour-Pensions

he can, whether the government have abandoned that policy, or whether they have any intention of carrying it out some time, and if so, when.

Mr. GORDON:

I shall be glad to look into the question of the estimate and send the hon. member any figures which are available in the department on the subject.

Mr. ILSLEY:

What about the preelection promise?

Mr. GORDON:

I never make any promises as to the future.

Mr. ILSLEY:

The hon. member for Kenora-Rainy River asked the minister the same question, whether the government has any intention of carrying out that preelection promise of 1930. Has the government any intention of carrying it out?

Mr. GORDON:

I am not in a position at the moment to answer that question.

Mr. HEENAN:

I think, Mr. Chairman, the minister ought to answer the question more seriously.

Mr. GORDON:

I was never more serious in my life.

Mr. HEENAN:

I think, Mr. Chairman, that you coming from Nova Scotia do not want this item carried until we get that information because you are aware that no people were ever deceived so much as were the people of Nova Scotia in the last election on this question. I was down there during the election and I could not hear anything else but the Conservative candidates promising a federal system of old age pensions, and the Prime Minister himself iterated and reiterated that policy from every platform from one end of Canada to the other. The government has now been in office for nearly three years and nothing has been done to carry out that promise. I do not think the minister should get away with simply saying that he cannot state whether the government is going to do it or not.

Mr. McGIBBON:

What about your promises to the soldiers of a gratuity for everyone in 1921?