February 14, 1933

LIB

Charles A. Stewart

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I gathered

from the minister's remarks that those police officers were not to be magistrates, but I see section 2 reads:

Subsection one of section 5 of the said act is amended by adding at the end thereof the following words:

"All members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police shall, for the purpose of this act, be ex officio game officers."

I see that section 5, subsection one, at present reads as follows:

The minister may appoint game officers for carrying out this act and the regulations, and may authorize such game officers to exercise the powers of a justice of the peace or the powers of a police constable.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
CON

Hugh Guthrie (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GUTHRIE:

Those are the ones appointed in that way. I made the same mistake

Migratory Birds Convention Act

as my hon. friend has made. Those were game wardens appointed under the act as it stood:

The minister may appoint game officers for carrying out this act and the regulations, and may authorize such game officers to exercise the powers of a justice of the peace or the powers of a police constable.

The mounted police are not appointed by the minister. They are appointed, according to the amendment, as follows:

All members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police shall, for the purpose of this act, be ex officio game officers.

Consequently they will not be justices of the peace.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I should like to ask the

Minister of the Interior what the relations will be between the chief migratory game officer and the members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. In the maritime provinces, for example, there is a chief migratory game officer, Mr. Robie Tufts, of Wolfville, Nova Scotia, and in that province there are some 150 members of the mounted police who are under the control of the Department of Justice. Will Mr. Tufts have authority to select any one or more of the members of the mounted police and direct them to go into particular locations, watch for offenders and lay charges? In other words, are they to be under his direction? If so, have you not officials who are controlled by the Department of Justice under the authority of superior officers who are controlled by the Department of the Interior? Perhaps the minister could explain that.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
LIB

Charles Murphy

Liberal

Mr. MURPHY:

I do not anticipate any

difficulty on that score because we have in the western provinces an official of the department in the person of Mr. Munro who exercises the same powers as does Mr. Tufts in Nova Scotia. We have also in the person of Mr. Lewis at Ottawa a permanent migratory bird warden who exercises for the provinces of Ontario and Quebec the same powers as do these other two men. These men simply cooperate with the police force, whatever it may be, in enforcing the regulations in regard to illegal shooting. There should therefore be no difficulty in the matter. The chief officer of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and Mr. Tufts will no doubt work in close cooperation, and * Mr. Tufts from his long experience will be able to advise that officer as to the steps which should be taken to protect those birds. But as regards the mounted police taking orders, certainly they will take their orders as such from their superior officer in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

It seems to me that is going to interfere with the administration of the act.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
LIB
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

It is very' important that

the chief migratory game officer should have a deciding voice as to what information should be laid and what prosecution should be undertaken. By this legislation his powers are taken away from him. If this is to be the effect; if he has cooperating with him and not working under him officers who are charged with the duty of apprehending offenders and laying informations and yet he has not any power over those officers, then you are going to have a division of responsibility which does not make for good enforcement of the act. I do not know anything about conditions in the other provinces, but this is very important in the maritimes and perhaps more important in Prince Edward Island than in Nova Scotia. I am not sure whether Prince Edward Island is policed by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
CON

Hugh Guthrie (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GUTHRIE:

Yes, it is.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Well, the same condition

will arise there. I am of opinion that the enforcement of the act will not be as effective with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police not subject to the authority of the chief migratory game officer for the district as it is under the present system. In my own province the chief migratory bird officer is an enthusiast and he commands the respect of everybody who knows anything about the enforcement of the act. He knows from experience the sort of men who will work efficiently under him, and he has built up an efficient staff which now is going to be taken away from him entirely, and instead he is to be supplied with certain officers of another department over which he has no actual authority, and he is going to be charged with the administration of the act in his district. It seems to me that this change will not make for efficiency.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
CON

Eccles James Gott

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOTT:

I ^should like to make a brief observation to the house, and that is that if there were a few more game conservationists throughout Canada of the kind found in my riding you could dispense with all your Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers and all your game wardens. It is in the county which I have the honour to represent that Jack Miner has established his bird sanctuary, and I challenge all the representatives in this house to show that all your game vardens

Migratory Birds Convention Act

and all your mounted police officers can protect more birds than Jack Miner does in his sanctuary.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
LIB

Paul Mercier

Liberal

Mr. MERCTER (St. Henri):

Has the

Minister of Justice received any objection from the attorney general of the province of Quebec to the passing of this act.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
CON

Hugh Guthrie (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GUTHRIE:

No, none whatever.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
LIB

John Power Howden

Liberal

Mr. IIOWDEN:

It is very convenient

sometimes not to have a legal mind. Personally I am not very much concerned over the legal aspects of this bill. I think myself that the bill is a decided step forward, and the only thing the matter with it so far as I can see is that it does not include nonmigratory birds as well as migratory.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
LIB
?

Mr. BOWDEN@

So much the better. I

come from a province which boasts one of the finest game birds in the world, the prairie grouse.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
CON
LIB

John Power Howden

Liberal

Mr. HOWDEN:

I do not believe there

is any better game bird in Canada than our prairie chicken in the fall, but I regret to say that we have had on two or three occasions to close the season for grouse hunting for a period of several years because the birds have become so depleted. I honestly believe that the depletion was not caused by legal hunting, but because certain citizens of Manitoba insisted on shooting the birds in season and out of season all the year round. To a very large extent the rural citizens in certain districts of Manitoba-and I do not blame them so much because they feed the birds- shoot the prairie chicken twelve months in he year. As is well known, the mounted police have the habit of going out and getting their man which the old game wardens did not have, and I think it is a mighty fine thing to have the mounted police on the trail of the offender under this act.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink

Section agreed to. On the preamble.


LIB

Edgar-Rodolphe-Eugène Chevrier

Liberal

Mr. CHEVRIER:

Has section four been

passed, Mr. Chairman?

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink
CON

Armand Renaud La Vergne (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

The CHAIRMAN:

Yes, it was passed the other day.

Topic:   MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT
Permalink

February 14, 1933