May 6, 1932

CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

I think that is putting it a little too broadly. They want to reserve to themselves such rights as accrued to them in virtue of the privy council decision. I think it is fair to say that they do not take exception, certainly not to the extent of pressing it, to the jurisdiction which we are now asserting in virtue of these bills.

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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

The federal government takes the position that in virtue of the British North America Act it has jurisdiction to deal with bankruptcy and insolvency?

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

Yes, and also with the

question of aliens, and to a lesser degree with the question of trade and commerce. There is no question whatsoever-the provinces have never raised it-that our jurisdiction is ample with respect to bankruptcy and insolvency and dealing with alien companies.

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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

The question of alien commerce was settled by one decision of the privy council some time ago, was it not? I do not recollect just what the decision was at the moment, but it was to the effect that insurance was a business that was peculiarly a civil contract and that therefore it came under the jurisdiction of the province. Am I not right?

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

So far as the question of

insurance business is concerned, I think the provinces have always been upheld by the privy council.

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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

Did not the same thing

apply with respect to aliens?

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

No, just the reverse. I do not think our jurisdiction both with respect to aliens and in respect to bankruptcy and insolvency has ever been called into question.

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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

As I understand it, there is no question as to the jurisdiction of the federal government with respect to aliens, but when the federal government asserted its right to control foreign insurance companies because it had jurisdiction over aliens, I was under the impression that the privy council had decided that that would be extending the right of the federal government too far, that once these aliens were in this country, whether they were foreign insurance companies or not,

unquestionably they fell within the jurisdiction of the laws of the province in which they were. I think I am right in that.

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

I think the real effect of

the decision was this: While it is admitted

that bankruptcy and insolvency are questions with respect to which we have full jurisdiction, nevertheless we could not, simply because we have jurisdiction over bankruptcy and insolvency, carry it to the point of trying to control the business of insurance as a business, that the latter was within the jurisdiction of the provinces.

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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

To go one step farther:

I do not wish to reopen any controversy con-ceming insurance companies, but I should like to know if there is anything in these bills authorizing the government to pass such orders in council as were passed on December 31 last, permitting insurance companies to value their securities at other than the values provided by the former Insurance Act. I must admit I have not read the bills now before us.

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

Mr. Chairman, respecting

the matter of our jurisdiction as it concerns the question of aliens I have before me the last decision of the privy council. On the point in question Lord Dunedin has said the following:

Their Lordships have no doubt that the Dominion parliament might pass an act forbidding aliens to enter Canada, or forbidding them so ito enter to engage in any business without a licence and further they might furnish rules for their conduct while in Canada requiring them, e.g. to report at stated intervals.

And so on.

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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

The minister has not

answered the question with respect to bankruptcy and the order in council passed last December.

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

May I suggest-and I

think my hon. friend will agree with my suggestion-that we would be well advised to consider this bill paragraph by paragraph.

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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

In which bill is that to

be found? I understood the suggestion of the minister to be that all three bills should be placed before the committee.

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

The bills are in committee, so we will take them up clause by clause, and seriatim.

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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

I was under the impression

the suggestion was that we would discuss the whole question.

Insurance Bills

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

I thought we would make better progress by taking the bills section by section.

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LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

Will the minister tell me

in which bill this provision is to be found?

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CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RHODES:

I beg my hon. friend's

pardon; I had the wrong bill before me.

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LIB

May 6, 1932