May 24, 1930


The house in committee of supply, Mr John9ton in the chair.


LIB

John Frederick Johnston (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Vote 121, page 32 of

the estimates. When this resolution was last before the committee we were considering the item:

Quebec Citadel-Governor General's quarters -improvements, maintenance, etc., $17,000.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Hon. J. C. ELLIOTT (Minister of Public Works):

Mr. Chairman, at the last sitting

of the committee my hon. friend from York-Sunbury (Mr. Hanson) asked for information with regard to the expenses in connection with Rideau Hall, and I have had it prepared for several years back. I will send over to him a copy of the statement; also a statement relating to the railway department, which they tell me is all the information they have.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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CON

Peter McGibbon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGIBBON:

I think, Mr. Chairman,

the house and the country would be interested in the information as well as the member for York-Sunbury.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

I am quite sure of that,

and I should like to lay on the table a copy of the statement. My hion. friend suggested that there had been an increase in the last

few years over any other previous period, and I want to call his attention to that phase of it.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

Mr. Chairman, I have just had a chance merely to glance over this statement. It is confined entirely to Rideau Ha'll. My request referred to the whole institution. This does not cover one cent for work done on the Quebec citadel; therefore to that extent it is entirely misleading.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

My hon. friend will recall that on the last occasion when we were discussing the matter I gave a statement regarding the Quebec citadel expenditures. I want to be absolutely clear that I am giving him the information he asked for as reported in Hansard at the time. He then stated that the further information he wanted referred to Rideau Hall. At that time I gave him all the information we had with regard to the citadel. It is quite an expensive statement. Perhaps my hon. friend would prefer to have a little time to look it over. If so, we will let the item stand for the present and proceed with other items.

May I direct my hon. friend's attention to the fact that for the three years ending March 31, 1915, the expenditure was $453,743.20; for the three years ending March 31, 1930, $337,-264.38-a difference of $116,478.82. That is, there was that much more expended on Rideau Hall for the three years ending March, 1915, than for the similar period ending March, 1930. I think it is only fair to my hon. friend to say that the recent expenditures extend over four or perhaps five years. So I have looked into what the expenditure was for the four years ending March 31, 1916, and I find that it amounted to $527,864.17, while for the four years ending March 31, 1930, it was $463,911.92-or for the previous four years ending 31st March, 1916, an excess of $63,952.35 over the last four years. For the five year period ending on March 31, 1917, the expenditure was $608,384.47; for the five years ending March 31, 1930, the expenditure was $558,984.24-or for the five years ending March 31, 1917, an excess over the five years ending March 31, 1930, of $49,400.23.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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CON

Peter McGibbon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGIBBON:

How much of that from

1913 on was due to remodelling Rideau Hall?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

The remodelling started, I think, in 1914. But I find that in 1911 an extra $60,000 was voted for a cloak room and for some additions including a garage. Late

Supply-Buildings-Quebec

in that year an additional 850,000 was voted for furnishings and things of that kind. The other reconstruction to which my hon. friend refers was started about 1914.

Mr. MoGIBBON: I want to get the amount for reconstruction and the amount for repairs.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

That is a matter of detail. Mr. McGIBBON: A very important detail.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

In the statement I have

furnished it shows the total expenditure on the hall for each of those years, part as refurnishing and part as additions and reconstructions from year to year.

Mr. MoGIBBON: I submit the country

will not be satisfied with that explanation.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

I can give my hon. friend some information, although I cannot give it m detail; I have nothing more than what appears on the statement before me. The amount spent for maintenance and repairs in 1912-13 was $67,089.44; there is no amount recorded for expenditures on alterations and improvements. In the year 1913-14, $285,977.11 was spent for maintenance and repairs, and there is nothing shown for alterations and improvements.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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CON

Peter McGibbon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGIBBON:

How much was spent

for repairs?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

That is not separated.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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CON

Peter McGibbon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGIBBON:

I submit that the house is entitled to have it separated.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

I will give my hon. friend complete details, but it will take some time to segregate the amounts spent on buildings, furnishings, grounds, and various items of maintenance. I suggest that we would be in a better position to discuss the matter after hon. gentlemen have had an opportunity to peruse the statement which I have furnished in regard to Rideau Hall.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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CON

William Alves Boys

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BOYS:

Would it be too much trouble to have prepared a statement in connection with the Quebec citadel along the lines of the one prepared in connection with Rideau Hall? Then they could both be put in Hansard.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

It would take some time to prepare such a statement, because it dates back to 1871, at the time it was taken over by the federal government.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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CON
LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

No, it was in 1871 that

the citadel was transferred.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
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May 24, 1930