May 12, 1930

CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Yes, that is where they belong.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I wish to

make it clear that nobody is making the claim that these items were intended to be misleading in any respect.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

Why were they put in?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

The Minister of Finance (Mr. Dunning) made it clear to my hon. friend, if he had cared to listen. He said they were placed on the schedule for the purpose of wiping them off altogether. So that I say if you consider the hundred items complained of by my hon. friend you still have a very respectable list remaining. The extensions in the preference made this year alone affect commodities which Canada imported last year to the value of $200,000,000. The matter of iron and steel has constituted a very important subject for discussion in this country. Such tariff increases as are

[Mr. C. A. StewartJ

made are, in almost all instances, on those primary forms which are used in manufacturing and they will be absorbed almost entirely by the manufacturers who process the primary forms into secondary products. Thus these increases will benefit the iron and steel industry without laying any burden upon the ultimate consumer.

A great deal has been made of the fact and references have frequently been made to the increases in the iron and steel schedules. It has been stated that such increased prices would in the end increase the price to the consumer. In this connection I shall deal with item 377b:

Ingots, cogged ingots, blooms, slabs, billets, n.o.p., of iron or steel, valued at not less than 3 cents per pound, when imported by manufacturers of steels for use exclusively in the manufacture of steels, in their own factories, under regulations prescribed by the minister.

And the item before that:

Blooms, cogged ingots, slabs, billets, n.o.p., sheet bars, of iron or steel, by whatever process made, n.o.p.

The British preferential rate is $2.50 whereas it was formerly $150. May I say that the whole idea is to bring materials to Canada, to produce in Canada the primary products necessary for the manufacture of iron and steel. I wish to point out that this will not mean an increase to the ultimate consumer. Why is that so? Bars and rods are the product of the billets, and the schedule says:

Bars or rods, of iron or steel, including bilets weighing less than 60 pounds per lineal yard, hot rolled, as hereunder defined, under regulations prescribed by the minister.

This item was given at $4.25 per ton, and there is no change. So that the rolling mills will have the benefit of importing their iron in the same manner as they have imported it in the past, at the same price, and at the same tariff schedule. There is no increase in this commodity; any increase which may have been placed upon the primary manufacturer is absorbed in the secondary, and it is not passed on to the consumer. A great deal has been said by my hon. friends in connection with the fact that there have been no reductions which would affect the agricultural classes. May I say that I can see a large list of items which have been placed on the free list. For one thing I notice the necessary steel for the manufacture of horseshoe nails and chains. Surely to goodness chains-and logging chains in particular-are used very largely by agriculturists.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN:

There are no logging

chains there.

The Budget-Mr. Stewart (Edmonton)

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

Yes there

are.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN:

They are not the size of logging chains.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I have not

the number of the item before me, but I make the statement that the chains in question can be used for agricultural purposes.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN:

They could not be used

for logging chains; they are not logging chains, because they are too small to be used for that purpose.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

Indeed, in

spite of increases in duty on these more primary forms there are scores of reductions on the finished products in iron and steel. Reductions in rates under iron and steel are numerous and important. Some of these which will affect the consumer directly or indirectly are: Decrease on structural steel in weights

not made in Canada but in which Great Britain can compete; free listing of steel plates in sizes and weights in which Great Britain can compete; reduction under all tariffs on galvanized corrugated sheets used for granaries, culverts, siding, and so on. I suppose my hon. friends will say the farmers do not get any advantage from these reductions. Then there has been an extension of the British preference on wire, springs and saw steels. Will my hon. friends say the farmers get no benefit there?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN:

I absolutely deny that

they will get any benefit.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

My hon.

friend will have a chance to explain his attitude when the proper time comes. I am making the statement now, and my hon. friend can refute it when he makes his speech. That extension of the British preference on wire, springs and saw steels will mean much to the people of this country. There are reductions under all tariffs on tractors and parts which were formerly dutiable. Surely that will mean something to the farmers of this country. My hon. friends do not like this story, and I do not blame them very much. There has been also a free listing under the British preference of all agricultural machinery, including milking machines, pasteurizers, dairy equipment and so on. I am taking the list the leader of the opposition read the other day in some detail, and in connection with which he stated that under some items there were some importations, while under others nothing was imported. I have left out those items under which he said there had been no importations, and this list includes, in addition to what I have mentioned, spraying and other horticultural equipment, potato diggers and planters, incubators and brooders, scythes, sickles, rakes and forks, separators and electric power generators. Material reductions have been made under all tariffs on machinery and equipment for use in printing, and the entire list is made free under the British preferential tariff. Surely that will mean something to the newspaper men of this country and it should mean something to the newspaper readers of Canada also; with our cheaper newsprint and with cheaper machinery for manufacturing newspapers perhaps they will not cost so much in the future

Then we have reductions under all tariffs on a very wide range of construction machinery such as is used by municipalities and individuals for draining, ditching, road building, excavating and so on. Under the British preference such machinery, formely dutiable, is now free, and this list includes: Concrete and asphalt road machines, cranes; shovels; back fillers; steam and air driven pile hammers and turntables. As I said before, Mr. Speaker, I have taken these articles from the list furnished by my hon. friend the leader of the opposition the other day, and I am giving them as proof that this budget does mean something and indeed means a great deal to all classes of people in this country who in future will be consumers of the articles mentioned in these schedules.

Reductions have been made under all tariffs on machinery for carbonizing lignite coal. This will be very important to the western provinces, and to the eastern provinces as well; in the future this should have a great effect on the development of this industry in Canada. Reductions have been made under all tariffs on machinery for making clay products, which industry now is being developed in western Canada. This will be of great importance to the brick and tile industry; no one will deny that. In addition, reductions under all tariffs and free listing under the British preference have been effected on all unspecified machinery, the importations of which amount to millions of dollars. Some of the machinery affected includes air compressing machinery, cranes and derricks, icing and refrigerating machinery, metal working machinery, pulp and paper mill machinery, power pumps and parts, steam and other shovels, steam boilers, internal combustion engines, steam engines, switches and switch boards, spark plugs and magnetos, rheostats, controllers and motors, fuses and fuse plugs and so on. We have also free listing from Great Britain and reductions under all tariffs on electrical apparatus of a class not made in Canada, including electric light fixtures, electric light bulbs, lamp shades,

1978 COMMONS

The Budget-Mr. Stewart (Edmonton)

gas meters, flashlights, headlights, enamelled hollow ware, plain hollow ware and tinware for shipping milk or cream. I am not going to say very much about tea; there will be no argument about that, but I might mention that there have been reductions under all tariffs on hand or power washing machines, sewing machines, vacuum cleaners, floor polishers and domestic refrigerators. There have been reductions also in the British preference rate on enamelled kitchenware, enamelled bath tubs, lavatory equipment and so on, which Great Britain is equipped to produce. All parts of Canada will benefit by this reduction. Reductions ranging from 7 to 15 cents per pound have been made effective on tea already.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Harry Bernard Short

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SHORT:

Where do you get the 15

cents?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

The large

companies advertised in the press that all retailers had received instructions to cut prices immediately, and this reduction became instantly effective throughout Canada. All householders should benefit by the free entry from Great Britain and her colonies of tableware, china and porcelain. This trade runs to about $4,000,000 annually, and the greatly increased spread should divert it almost entirely to Great Britain. Surely this will mean something to the Canadian consumer, and it will mean also an increase in our trade with the mother country.

Western Canada in particular has gone in for the wide development of rural hospitals. The budget puts on the free list, under all tariffs, an extremely wide range of hospital supplies and equipment, much of which formerly entered Canada from the United States at rates ranging from 17J per cent to 35 per cent. This reduction directly affects the ordinary citizens in every province.

This budget, Mr. Speaker, is not a free trade budget, nor can it be construed to be a protectionist budget.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

What is it?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I know my hon. friends will take a lot of time pointing out what they consider to be weaknesses in the budget, but they will have a hard task ahead of them. Neither can this budget be said to set up a revenue tariff. What we are endeavouring to do is to transfer our trade to Great Britain and countries which are willing to trade with us, but realizing the situation as it exists to-day the government, after a most complete investigation by the tariff board, have endeavoured so to adjust the tariff as to give the maximum possible scope to international

trade, upon which we know the prosperity of every country rests. It is not designed in the spirit of irrational, extreme, economic nationalism which is rampant to-day throughout the world and with which Canada shows some signs of being affected.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

John Frederick Johnston (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER:

The hon. gentleman's time is up. '

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

Just one

further word and I am through. I think the Minister of Finance has shown remarkable skill in producing a tariff which comes so near to pleasing all kinds of divergent opinions, which does not seek to exact any substantial sacrifice from any considerable section of the Canadian people and which will be fully appreciated only when the full effects of the changes become apparent.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. J. D. CHAPLIN (Lincoln):

Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to follow the remarks of the minister closely; having only forty minutes I have something to say in addition to what he has said already, but I do want to say that I do not understand how we can get a reduction of 15 cents on tea when the duty was only 7 cents and 10 cents. One of the largest tea dealers in Canada advertises reductions of 10 cents and 7 cents per pound, but there is no mention of a reduction of 15 cents. I would like to know how a duty of 7 cents can be magnified into one of 15 cents.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

It is a mystery.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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May 12, 1930