May 2, 1930

CON

Robert James Manion

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

The governor in council.

The appointments are political, but not the committee.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

What is the underlying

reason for enlarging the personnel of the commission? Is it to exercise further departmental control?

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Personally I have not changed my mind in regard to the question of administration. As I explained to the house when I introduced the bill, this is largely a departmental matter and I felt that the administration would be more effective if it were carried on by departmental officials who are now in the department and in the civil service of this country, and who are dealing from day to day with returned soldiers.

War Veterans' Allowances

This would be merely an extension of the work which they are now doing. We have dealt with hospitalization, vocational training, treatment and relief, and vetcraft shops all over Canada for the last twelve years, and there has never been any question of political interference. These officers have always tried to do their work, and taking it all in ail I think that they have done it very well. The opposition members, however, rather objected to a departmental committee, and in the special committee the matter was thoroughly threshed out, and personally I am satisfied to accept the unanimous conclusions of that committee. As regards the deputy minister and the assistant deputy minister, I think that there is a very good reason for including them because we are going to administer this act with the machinery that we now have, and I do not think that it would be wise or that anyone would propose that new machinery should be set up throughout Canada for administration. The services of the Department of Pensions and National Health will have to be given to this independent committee. The idea in associating the deputy minister with the assistant deputy is to give that contact between the department and the committee. I think that is the real explanation in regard to it.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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CON

William Gordon Ernst

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ERNST:

The only objection I see to reducing the quorum from three to two members is that it might be possible for the assistant deputy minister and the additional person, who is not on the staff and is to be named by the governor in council, to constitute themselves a quorum to deal effectively with cases without consulting the other members of the committee. It opens that possibility.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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LIB

Eugène Fiset

Liberal

Sir EUGENE FISET:

The act specifies the minister or the assistant deputy minister, and there is a fifth member to be chosen by the legion itself. The quorum was reduced from three, as proposed, to two because the commission is composed of three permanent members, and what we had in mind was that two of these could form a quorum.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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CON

William Gordon Ernst

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ERNST:

Two of the three permanent members?

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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LIB
CON

William Gordon Ernst

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ERNST:

It does not say so.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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CON

Arthur Edward Ross

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROSS (Kingston):

The committee felt in regard to the first proposal that the deputy minister should not have any further work imposed on him as chairman of this board. Therefore we considered that it would be better to have three independent members

who would actually administer the act, but that as a liaison officer there should be some person from the department. It was felt that at all sessions it would be absolutely necessary for those three paid members to be present and that two of them should form a quorum. It does not debar some person in the department with experience and knowledge of this work being appointed to the commission; but in such case he would have to resign his position in the department and become a paid member of the commission.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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LIB

Joseph Thorarinn Thorson

Liberal

Mr. THORSON:

In reply to the question asked by the hon. member for Queens-Lunenburg (Mr. Ernst) this explanation might be offered. I do not think there would be any objection to the quorum being constituted of either the deputy minister or the assistant deputy minister and the other person who is referred to in subsection 1 of section 3. That other person was suggested by General Sir Arthur Currie as an honorary member of the committee more or less to supervise and check over its work. So that if the quorum did consist of the deputy minister on the one hand and this honorary member of the committee on the other, there would be the most careful check over of the work of that quorum. The reason for having a quorum consisting of two was that there might be several quorums operating at the same time whose duties might necessitate a certain amount of travel.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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LAB

Herbert Bealey Adshead

Labour

Mr. ADSHEAD:

Mr. Chairman, as a member of the committee might I suggest to the minister that the regulations to be drawn up should include a rule that the attendance of the members be recorded. I think that is very essential, because no such record has been kept of other board meetings, and we had no idea what service the paid members had given. I think it is very essential that such a record should be kept.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

I will keep that in mind when the committee is organized.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

I think it should be made absolutely clear in the legislation that the two members constituting a quorum shall be the two salaried officers; but you have not provided for this in the bill. It could be made clear by a simple amendment.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Colonel Biggar drew this amendment and he advised the committee that it was properly worded. I see no objection to the suggestion; in fact I imagine that is the course which will be followed. You have paid a commission, and then you have honorary members. The decision will surely be given by the paid commissioners, and two of them will form a quorum.

War Veterans' Allowances

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

Not as the section is

drafted.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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CON

Murray MacLaren

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacLAREN:

A quorum of two may appear small to this committee, and I think it is small, but, as just said by my friend on the opposite side (Mr. Thorson), the real reason for constituting two as a quorum was that some members of the commission will probably be travelling through various parts of the country-

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

They will.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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CON

Murray MacLaren

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacLAREN:

-and in that event a quorum of two would be sufficient. There is also this safeguard, that in the event of a quorum of two coming to any decision, it could always be reversed by the full board.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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LIB
CON

George Halsey Perley

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE PERLEY:

The minister, as I understand, is desirous that two of the salaried members of the committee should form a quorum.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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May 2, 1930