May 2, 1930

AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK


Hon. CHARLES STEWART (Minister of the Interior) moved the third reading of Bill No. 41, respecting the transfer of the railway belt and Peace River block. He said: Before this bill is read a third time, I think in fairness to members of the ojr position I should give some information that I was to secure for them. I see the hon. member for Vancouver Centre (Mr. Stevens) is not in his seat, but I can put the information on Hansard with reference to the foreshore rights in the Fraser river. Upon inquiry I find that the harbour board of New Westminster made application for the foreshore rights from Douglas island to tidewater. That was refused, but foreshore rights were granted to them to two miles west of Annacis island and in addition the foreshore rights were granted on the Pitt river some twelve miles easterly from the junction with the Fraser Natural Resources-British Columbia and ten miles in the Fraser river. The harbour commission of New Westminster apparently were able to convince the provincial authorities that this was necessary to protect them in connection with harbour purposes. In answer to the hon. member for Cariboo (Mr. Fraser) in regard to ordnance lands, the tract of 100,000 acres mentioned by him as being in the Chilcoten valley was exchanged for Point Grey property which was granted to the provincial government for university grounds and other purposes, and is still controlled by the Department of Defence. It has not yet been transferred to the Department of the Interior. With reference to the boundaries in regard to which the commission is set up and provision is made in the agreement, the commisison is simply to decide what the boundaries of the present areas of ordnance reserves will be. They are not definite nor well defined and the commission was set up for that purpose. With reference to the other matter that we discussed, that is as to whether or not there could be exchanges, I am informed by our officers that that matter was not discussed in the negotiations with the officers of the provincial government, so that I was somewhat in error in making the statement that exchanges could be made. The commission is set up simply for the purpose of defining the boundaries of ordnance lands already set aside.


CON

John Anderson Fraser

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FRASER:

Might I ask the minister

a question in regard to foreshore rights? The paragraph in the agreement says that the foreshore rights are reserved to the federal government as far up as Kanaka creek. That is eight miles from Lillooet, or 150 miles up the Fraser river. That does not correspond with the statement the minister made a moment ago.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I think my

hon. friend must be in error, because according to the map I have in my hand there is a Kanaka creek about twelve miles up the Fraser river, and that is the one mentioned because I have gone into the matter thoroughly with the officers of the Department of Marine and Fisheries and they say that is required. The hon. member for New Westminster (Mr. McQuarrie) who at present is not in the house, is anxious, I understand, that we should introduce legislation confirming this agreement as he claims, so I am told, that it is very necessary for the protection of New Westminster harbour and any new development in connection with it. The creek mentioned by my hon. friend (Mr. Fraser) is at least 150 miles up the river, but that is not the one referred to. The latter is about twelve miles up.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK
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CON

John Anderson Fraser

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FRASER:

The agreement is clear that the bed of the Fraser river and the foreshore of the Fraser river up to Kanaka creek are reserved to the federal government. That takes in a good deal more area than the minister has stated.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I have gone into the matter thoroughly with the officers who have negotiated the agreement, and this is a creek twelve miles or slightly more, up the Fraser river from its junction with the Pitt river.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK
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CON

John Anderson Fraser

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FRASER:

Then I am to understand

that the minister and I are not referring to the same Kanaka creek?

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

Yes.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK
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CON

John Anderson Fraser

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FRASER:

The one to which the

minister refers is twelve miles up the Fraser river?

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

Yes.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK
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CON

Edmond Baird Ryckman

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. E. B. RYCKMAN (East Toronto):

Mr. Speaker, before this bill receives third reading I desire again to emphasize the fact that it appears to be grotesque and absurd that the parliament of Canada should seek to give itself a jurisdiction which it has no power to do. I feel satisfied that as the implications of paragraph 16 of the agreement are so broad, there will certainly be occasions when this paragraph will be called in question. The fact that parliament is attempting to do what I submit it has no right to do, will be a matter of great concern to those who are directly involved, that is as between the Dominion of Canada, the province of British Columbia and those who may be charged as failing to observe regulations that may be imposed by the parliament of Canada. Therefore, the law officers of the crown ought to consider the situation very carefully and to avoid the possibility of trouble, likely to result in great injury to individuals, to the province of British Columbia and to the Dominion of Canada, safeguards should be provided in any validating act. I raise this objection because I feel satisfied, if nothing more is done, just as sure as morn succeeds the night, we are going to have trouble over this paragraph.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK
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LIB

Lucien Cannon (Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Hon. LUCIEN CANNON (Solicitor General) :

I may say the point does offer certain difficulties. These difficulties were indicated to a certain extent by the leader of the opposition (Mr. Bennett) and also by my hon. friend who has just spoken. I may assure the house that as regards whatever legislation may be necessary to put into effect these new relations as between British Columbia and the Dominion,

War Veterans' Allowances

every possible weight and consideration will be given to the suggestion offered by hon. gentlemen opposite.

Motion agreed to and bill read the third time and passed.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH BRITISH COLUMBIA RESPECTING RAILWAY BELT AND PEACE RIVER BLOCK
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FOOD AND DRUGS ACT AMENDMENT


Hon. J. H. KING (Minister of Pensions and National Health) moved the third reading of Rill No. 125, to amend the Food and Drugs Act. Motion agreed to and bill read the third time and passed.


WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES


The house in committee on Bill No. 19, respecting war veterans' allowances-Mr. King (Kootenay)-Mr. Johnston in the chair. On section 1-Short title. Hon. J. H. KING' (Minister of Pensions and National Health): I might, in explanation, say that this bill after its second reading was referred to a special committee dealing with soldier matters. It has there been fully considered and now comes back to the house with certain changes made here and there, but for the most part the measure remains as it was when introduced on March 4th. I want to state definitely that this bill has nothing to do with pensions, and it must not in any way interfere in the slightest degree with a man's right to claim and the country's obligation to give an adequate pension for war disability. The chief changes made by the committee have been that the first clause is wiped out, being considered unnecessary. The age limit has also been changed from sixty-five as in the original bill to sixty. The clause dealing with administration has also been changed, a committee being proposed that will administer outside of departmental control. The section dealing with allowances has also been amended. I think that the committee finally concluded that casual earnings should be exempted. Those are the principal changes that have been made in the bill, and as far as the government is concerned we concur in the amendments that have been made by the committee, and are pleased that the members of the committee were able to come to an unanimous conclusion. Section agreed to. Section 2 agreed to. On section 3 War veterans' allowance committee.


CON

Arthur Edward Ross

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROSS (Kingston):

Would the minister read the amendment?

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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LIB

John Frederick Johnston (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

The amendments are not marked in the copy of the bill that I have, but section 3 is printed as amended, and reads as follows:

(1 )[DOT] The war veterans' allowance committee shall consist of three members to be appointed by the governor in council, one of whom shall be appointed chairman and shall receive a salary of six thousand dollars a year and the other two of whom shall receive each a salary of five thousand dollars a year; provided that the governor in council may appoint, to be additional members of the committee, the deputy minister and, as his alternate, the assistant deputy minister, and one other person who is not on the staff of the department.

(2) Two members of the committee shall constitute a quorum.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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CON

Robert James Manion

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

It might be of interest to the house, particularly to those who were not on the committee, if I explained what the real difference is. The original clause provided that the administration of this act should be left to a committee made up of officials of the department. The special committee that considered this bill was of the opinion that there was a certain risk of such a committee becoming more or less political; I do not mean under this government more than under any other government, but it was felt that there was that risk, and the proposal was therefore made and adopted by the committee that an independent committee such as is now proposed should administer the act. While there will still be a representative of the department upon that committee, either the deputy minister or the assistant deputy minister, the other three commissioners, to call them such, will be entirely independent of the department. The object is to ensure that the committee will be independent.

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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UFA

Henry Elvins Spencer

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. SPENCER:

Who will appoint these

commissioners?

Topic:   QUEBEC CITY WATER SUPPLY
Subtopic:   WAR VETERANS' ALLOWANCES
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May 2, 1930